Qwartel wrote:
In your theory a world record can never be broken by a clean athlete...
This has been obvious since the late '60's.
Qwartel wrote:
In your theory a world record can never be broken by a clean athlete...
This has been obvious since the late '60's.
...at least in the sprints and field events.
Pompus Maximus wrote:
...at least in the sprints and field events.
Why this filter?
Clerk wrote:
[quote]Qwartel wrote:
Do you think a clean athlete can outperform doped ones of equal natural ability, training, and commitment?
No, but only compared with themselves. I think a doped Bolt is faster than a clean Bolt. But I still think a clean Bolt is faster than a doped Justin Cailtin.
Do you think Bolt is doped ?
I assume they all are doped and avoid the mental gymnastics associated with sorting through clean versus drugged athletic performances.
Qwartel wrote:
Clerk wrote:[quote]Qwartel wrote:
Do you think a clean athlete can outperform doped ones of equal natural ability, training, and commitment?
No, but only compared with themselves. I think a doped Bolt is faster than a clean Bolt. But I still think a clean Bolt is faster than a doped Justin Cailtin.
Do you think Bolt is doped ?
Yes. I do.
WM wrote:
Schippers has been an very rare and talented athlete and esspecially sprinter throughout her carreer. To accuse her from being doped one should present a little more than just disliking the nationality or skin color.
Schippers has a lot going for her.
1. She Always has been incredibly fast, even when she trained exclusively as an heptathlete. Her progression can easily be explained by her age and exclusive focussing on sprint and esspecially her start
2. She beat allyson felix already in 2011 when she was just 19 years old as a full time heptathelete.
3. She does do all the dope controle and there never has been any irregularities there.
4. Her coach nor his pupils have been linked to dope in any way
5. She runs a lot of races, and each time she has a dope control.
6. Her inherited her tall and strong build from her parents. Unfortunately also the acne (her mother and sister suffered from the same far in the 20-ties) as well. And the Jaw.... you could see that on a very young age, or do you want to tell that she was doped since the age of 9?
While I hear only the very weak arguments against her.
1. She is far too muscular (while she is far under 70kg and 179m tall). Perhaps consider that the muscles are more visible than her darked skinned competitors.
2. She runs too fast (meaning faster than my favourate).
3. Refer to dutch speed skaters in sochi while none of them have been catched on doping as well.
I sounds like some people have emotional problems in accepting schippers' achievements, rather than there is any evidence of cheating. In that light she stands on even grounds or even better than her competitors. So please can we leave those comments behind until there is something more substancial than this?
Dear WM,
Sounds like you are new to Letsrun, please know, Schippers is not unique, practically every American elite sprinter has been accused of doping on this site. With that said, if you follow athletics, you should know it makes logical sense on multiple levels for the world to be suspicious of Schippers.
Sprinting is so dominated by the U.S. and the Caribbean athletes or more specifically, athletes of West African heritage, that it is refreshing to see Caucasian-Europeans in the mix. It is quite possible Dafne is clean, I certainly hope she is clean, but I am suspicious as well. I have been following sprinting for decades, notwithstanding everything you wrote, there is nothing in Dafne's past performances, genetics, coaching or pedigree that would suggest she was capable of running a 21.63 200m. Perhaps Dafne's biggest problem is that she has run too fast, which is no different than what implicates FloJo in the minds of a lot of people, simply the fact that she ran very fast. It is unreasonable to expect people not to be suspicious of a former heptathlate and journeymen sprinter to running a faster 200m than Veronica Campbell-Brown and Allyson Felix, who were world class athletes in grade school. Like I said, I hope Dafne is clean, she could be clean, but personally, I think she is dirty and I think Elaine Thompson of Jamaica is dirty as well. Elaine Thompson had a 200m PR of 23.23 in 2014 and ran 21.66 the following year. Excluding the Chinese and the Soviet Bloc athletes, in the history of track & field, I cannot find a single record of any athlete over age 21 who has made that great of an improvement in any event in less than 12 months. (No one single athlete)
Summary:
After Armstrong we can have no heroes.
Keeping it real!
I went back and looked at Dafne 22.03 from 2014. That was an absolutely incredible race when you consider she got a poor start, had no competition and ran into a negative headwind. With just a slightly better start and a modest headwind, Schippers could have ran 21.84 in the that race, which would have been a full second faster than her 200m PR from the previous year, which was 22.84. Right now, the scary things is, Dafne is on pace to break FloJo's 200m world record, a record which was thought to be untouchable. Dafne only needs to make half of the improvement in 2016 as she did in 2015.
Btw, WM made the point that Schippers improvement is attributable to focusing on sprinting over the multi-events. Schippers has always been a sprinter, she never just focused on the multis and what's also surprising is she's actually bigger now than when she was a heptathlete. WM also pointed out that Schippers parents where athletes, I guess is making the point Dafne has good genetics, which apparently is correct, but I also point out that (no) Dutch athlete has ever reached an Olympic or World Championship sprint final. Apparently, Dafne Schippers hit the Powerball of genetics.
The Multi-events have a very low number of dopers. Not saying we do not any or we are better than other event groups but as a general rule we are not really into being enhanced.
I can only think of two that come to mind in the last 10 years.
Churanndy Martina - Dutch MaleFlannie-Blankers Koen - Dutch Female
TrackCoach wrote:
I also point out that (no) Dutch athlete has ever reached an Olympic or World Championship sprint final. Apparently, Dafne Schippers hit the Powerball of genetics.
runfastrunfar wrote:
Churanndy Martina - Dutch Male
Flannie-Blankers Koen - Dutch Female
TrackCoach wrote:I also point out that (no) Dutch athlete has ever reached an Olympic or World Championship sprint final. Apparently, Dafne Schippers hit the Powerball of genetics.
LMAO
The woman athlete of the century happened to be dutch :)
But hey.. let's forget. She's not from the states .... or Jamaica ...
if she wants to make some money should start studying mma. she looks like she would tear heads off.
runfastrunfar wrote:
The Multi-events have a very low number of dopers. Not saying we do not have any or we are better than other event groups but as a general rule we are not really into being enhanced.
I can only think of two that come to mind in the last 10 years.
Correction: I did some fact-checking and Multi-eventers (male and female) have failed 16 times in since 1989.
9 times on the women' side
7 times on the mens' side
+1
nobody cares... wrote:
if she wants to make some money should start studying mma. she looks like she would tear heads off.
I have no idea about whether they are doping, but Elaine Thompson dropped .33 in the 100m from the previous year, still a big drop but not enormous like the 200m drop. Now she is also the same age as Schippers, both are 23. You get drops from 22 to 23. The drop from 23 to 21.66 indicates something entirely different. But she had a lot faster 200m in her when she ran 11.16 or 11.17 in 2014.
Schippers, now, ran fast already at age 19 in 2011, 11.19 and 22.69 200m, when still a heptathlete.
She also ran 11.03 in 2014. So, you certainly cannot say there was no evidence in her history that she could some day run times like Allyson Felix. Of course, with 7.00, 10.84 against the wind, and 21.66, she is on the verge all of a sudden of all-timer status, so there will be questions.
http://www.iaaf.org/athletes/netherlands/dafne-schippers-250353
runfastrunfar wrote:
Churanndy Martina - Dutch Male
Flannie-Blankers Koen - Dutch Female
TrackCoach wrote:I also point out that (no) Dutch athlete has ever reached an Olympic or World Championship sprint final. Apparently, Dafne Schippers hit the Powerball of genetics.
I stand corrected.
What I meant to say was a Dutch female athlete in my lifetime.
She looks like she is on dope but until she pops a positive test she is a "clean" athlete.
Good article about her performances and doping accusations here:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/aug/30/dafne-schippers-world-championships-200m
DC Wonk wrote:
Good article about her performances and doping accusations here:
http://www.theguardian.com/sport/blog/2015/aug/30/dafne-schippers-world-championships-200m
Right, she didn't run 21.63 on a cinder track, she ran on synthetic! That's how she ran so fast. That's the reason she can match the sport's biggest dopers like Jones and Griffith Joyner, they ran on cinders!
And we've moved beyond those neanderthal coaching styles of... 2006...