Mary Cain 2nd to Last Place in Germany in 4:20.73

The U.S. already has an excellent example of a young woman turning pro with low-key, steady development: Ajee Wilson. Never gets much attention from LRC, yet is perfectly positioned for Rio at age 20.

Off the juice.

Logic wrote:

Well actual physics say that denser objects move efficiently, so you're kind of just making stuff up. Please refer to the posts regarding her improper upbringing throughout her career for better insight.

Density is mass divided by volume. If her mass decreases, then so too would her volume (girth, calf/thigh circumference, etc). Her density may have little change especially if that extra volume is not muscle.

I would first and foremost question the judgement of her parents in allowing her to go pro at such a young age. Talent and fast times are not the only aspects of being a professional (in any field). The question in my view, is not one of knowledge of the sport, but an understanding of what it takes to be a professional. A professional is objective, realistic, mature and has a storehouse of lessons that he or she can draw upon based on experience. A 17yr old growing up under normal comfortable circumstances cannot be elevated to the status of a professional. No 17yr old should be allowed to go Pro. Period. Her father is a physician and he should know better on how long and hard he had to work, the lessons he had to learn and the curve-balls he had to dodge in life, to become a medical professional.

As for the coach shouldering the blame. Yes, that is part of the equation. I am not sure who approached who, but it would be hard to turn away a talented runner. I suppose it is a combination of ambitions and good intentions of everybody run amok. A young lady who wants to be the best, her parents who want her to be happy, the public/media who hyped up a kid as the next best thing since sliced bread and a coach who wanted to coach a champion. In all of this, it seems like the true Mary Cain got lost, both to us and herself.

Personally, I wish her the best and hope she has a good life.

Logic errr wrote:

Logic wrote:

Well actual physics say that denser objects move efficiently, so you're kind of just making stuff up. Please refer to the posts regarding her improper upbringing throughout her career for better insight.

Density is mass divided by volume. If her mass decreases, then so too would her volume (girth, calf/thigh circumference, etc). Her density may have little change especially if that extra volume is not muscle.

MC has a lot of density, mass and volume in that muffin top.

So do I wrote:

I would first and foremost question the judgement of her parents in allowing her to go pro at such a young age. ...question in my view, is not one of knowledge of the sport, but an understanding of what it takes to be a professional.

I still don't know what "go pro" means that you Americans go on about all the time, either you're getting out and friggin running (and running smart) or you're not. It ain't friggin rocket science.

Going pro third world style. wrote:

So do I wrote:

I would first and foremost question the judgement of her parents in allowing her to go pro at such a young age. ...question in my view, is not one of knowledge of the sport, but an understanding of what it takes to be a professional.

I still don't know what "go pro" means that you Americans go on about all the time, either you're getting out and friggin running (and running smart) or you're not. It ain't friggin rocket science.

1) Not running in college with a team emphasis over individual

2) Getting paid to run, which would certainly bring more pressure

I get what you are saying, but there is clearly a difference. You aren't training for NCAA championships, you are training for prize races, US championships and international champs.

You do know that a Stanford football player can't play in the superbowl, right?

I would first and foremost question the judgement of her parents in allowing her to go pro at such a young age. Talent and fast times are not the only aspects of being a professional (in any field). The question in my view, is not one of knowledge of the sport, but an understanding of what it takes to be a professional. A professional is objective, realistic, mature and has a storehouse of lessons that he or she can draw upon based on experience. A 17yr old growing up under normal comfortable circumstances cannot be elevated to the status of a professional. No 17yr old should be allowed to go Pro. Period. Her father is a physician and he should know better on how long and hard he had to work, the lessons he had to learn and the curve-balls he had to dodge in life, to become a medical professional.

As for the coach shouldering the blame. Yes, that is part of the equation. I am not sure who approached who, but it would be hard to turn away a talented runner. I suppose it is a combination of ambitions and good intentions of everybody run amok. A young lady who wants to be the best, her parents who want her to be happy, the public/media who hyped up a kid as the next best thing since sliced bread and a coach who wanted to coach a champion. In all of this, it seems like the true Mary Cain got lost, both to us and herself.

Personally, I wish her the best and hope she has a good life.[/quote]

Good post. I can't help but think that Cain, as well as other HS phenoms whom she was a lot faster than, were somewhat ironically unfortunate that huge success was dumped on them at an early age. Not that anyone would agree with that at the time--anyone who saw Mary Cain in 2013 knew that she was living the dream of any high school runner. You could see it in the way she ran, the shocked/delighted way she reacted to her astounding performances (that 1:59 at Pre comes to mind), her interviews, which while arguably annoying, also revealed genuine excitement and youth. It was great then, but her physical abilities were developing at a rate that her psychological and emotional maturity was not. Most high schoolers/collegiates get the chance to develop all 3 at roughly the same rate--while they weren't running anywhere in the ballpark of Cain, they still had those races where it didn't go right, where they were forced to learn from it, understood their strengths and weaknesses, and that they were nowhere near the best of the best, but if you work hard you can improve, have success and have fun with it. This kind of realism, big-picture outlook and emotional maturity are the mental tools, developed in high school and college, safely away from the spotlight, that a professional athlete NEEDS TO HAVE regardless of physical talent.

Not saying Cain will never have these tools, just that she's roughly the same level psychologically as others her age, only competing against women who are vastly above her in this area.

And spot on regarding the coaches, parents etc. Everyone with the right intentions, and it's hard when a once-in-a-billion talent shows up ready to get better, to turn her down and hold her back. Hindsight is 20/20 after all.

Wish Cain the best. If she can find her way out of her rut, that would show tremendous mental poise and toughness.

The Krause girl is cute. Cain looked like she needed to poop really bad.

Going pro was the smartest thing she ever could have done. I have no idea what her contract is but I seem to remember reading on here it was somewhere in the $250k range. If that is true (if anyone has a better idea please post), then she is going to have a nice chunk of change in her pocket that she most likely never would have had if she had not gone pro when she did. While we will never know how things would have turned out if she had gone the college route, I think it is more likely than not that she would be running about the same as she is, except instead of having $250k a year in her pocket, she would have some crappy degree from oregon or wherever.

mellow seeds wrote:

Going pro was the smartest thing she ever could have done. I have no idea what her contract is but I seem to remember reading on here it was somewhere in the $250k range. If that is true (if anyone has a better idea please post), then she is going to have a nice chunk of change in her pocket that she most likely never would have had if she had not gone pro when she did. While we will never know how things would have turned out if she had gone the college route, I think it is more likely than not that she would be running about the same as she is, except instead of having $250k a year in her pocket, she would have some crappy degree from oregon or wherever.

I'd have to disagree. First and foremost, I don't think $250k is worth the gamble, (in hindsight) of stringing together a series of disappointments and the mental anguish it leads to. To be happy and satisfied with a short term gain of $250k above all takes a level of maturity and pragmatism that is uncommon among the young (we have all been there). I seriously doubt a talented 17yr old on a hot streak gave two whits about the money. She probably dreamed big, i.e. the Olympics and off winning championships.

The Ghost of Caesar wrote:

Well said, Renato. Here here!

Here here? Really?

takinthepiss wrote:

Going pro third world style. wrote:

I still don't know what "go pro" means that you Americans go on about all the time, either you're getting out and friggin running (and running smart) or you're not. It ain't friggin rocket science.

1) Not running in college with a team emphasis over individual

2) Getting paid to run, which would certainly bring more pressure

I get what you are saying, but there is clearly a difference. You aren't training for NCAA championships, you are training for prize races, US championships and international champs.

You do know that a Stanford football player can't play in the superbowl, right?

You do know that no one outside America knows/cares about college football or the superbowl, or especially the technicalities in eligibility for it?

The difference between an NCAA championship and US championship is also confusingly foreign to every other country in the world. I only understand college because I visit LRC so often, and I agree - it doesn't/shouldn't matter where/who you're running for. Just go and run.

in the know australian wrote:

The difference between an NCAA championship and US championship is also confusingly foreign to every other country in the world. I only understand college because I visit LRC so often, and I agree - it doesn't/shouldn't matter where/who you're running for. Just go and run.

The context is that an American athlete who forgoes the collegiate system which virtually every other athlete goes through including the overwhelming majority of the best of the eventual best, is doing something outside the norm which can carry some issues with it in itself.

I have no idea what has caused her dropoff in performance but I can't discount the possibility that the wrong move was to bypass the collegiate system and going pro. There are not only running but social issues which can be associated with such a move.

in the know australian wrote:

takinthepiss wrote:

1) Not running in college with a team emphasis over individual

2) Getting paid to run, which would certainly bring more pressure

I get what you are saying, but there is clearly a difference. You aren't training for NCAA championships, you are training for prize races, US championships and international champs.

You do know that a Stanford football player can't play in the superbowl, right?

You do know that no one outside America knows/cares about college football or the superbowl, or especially the technicalities in eligibility for it?

The difference between an NCAA championship and US championship is also confusingly foreign to every other country in the world. I only understand college because I visit LRC so often, and I agree - it doesn't/shouldn't matter where/who you're running for. Just go and run.

Thanks fellow Aussie, who gives a rats arse about some Stanford football player and what does it have to do with some runner supposedly going "pro" anyway. Going "pro" is something I hear wanker triathletes talk about.

Just get out and friggin run and if you're good enough you'll pick up some cash one way or another.

The story that I remember hearing was that it was Salazar who sought Cain out - not vice versa. There was some newspaper article about how he called her after the 2012 Olympics, and asked if he could be her coach.

That seems to be the way things go with Salazar. He has some success with some people, but he seems a little careless. He just goes after whatever strikes his fancy, and makes a lot of mistakes. Then his defenders try to say that, oh well, that's the way it goes. Not everything works out, and that's the price you have to be willing to pay to try to be the best. B.S., I say. I remember thinking at the time that going with Salazar was literally the worst thing Cain could have done. A smarter coach would have anticipated the pitfalls, and probably would have encouraged her to run collegiately anyway.

AlSal has seemed to be much more successful with the men he trains. His women tend to find short term success (

hereing problem wrote:

The Ghost of Caesar wrote:

Well said, Renato. Here here!

Here here? Really?

ROFL

many phenomenal talents come from nowhere,peak somewhere in their teens,and dissapear into oblivion by the time theyre 20.they peak far too soon,or do work loads theyre not ready for.that or they over race,the expectations are too high,and they get injured,or end up having eating disorders.ive seen it time and again,athletes in their mid teens showing so much promise,only to fall into a hole.