Kara Goucher wins Big Sur Half Marathon on Monterey Bay

The Big Sur Marathon is run entirely on Highway 1 south of Carmel and is extremely hilly (for an asphalt marathon).

The Big Sur Half is run through downtown Monterey and out 'n back through Pacific Grove. It's got some rolling hills, but nothing real steep. I've run it three times and I don't consider it a fast course.

None of the Half is run on any section of the full.

LM wrote:

Edward Teach wrote:

Big Sur is definitely a hilly course. This isn't the sort of place you go for prs. Its known for its scenery. Kara Goucher's result is very good in this light.

What passes for hilly is always amusing. No its not a blazing course, but it still had a mere 120ft of elevation change. Thats not much different than a pancake.

Id say "hilly" starts at around 600ft and extends all the way up to about 1300ft.

After that we are either talking about mountain running or a climbing road race in some fashion.

Oh, so Boston's Heartbreak Hill does not exist, and the bridge "climbs" in NYC are flat. Well, okay then...

Sad, but indeed, your mom went downhill in her 30s. What was she doing then, raising you, wasn't she. You wife --LOL, you're a dorky runner-- will fall apart in her 30s. You will as well. Sucks to have a life like yours.

Quickly! wrote:

Geez she was cute back then, I guess it goes down hill in your 30s. And she killed that workout, should have stayed with Alberto.

Deena wrote:

Am I missing something? Where is Deena on this list?

WiT wrote:

Molly Huddle 1:08:31 B United Airlines NYC Half New York NY USA 3/15/2015

Kim Conley 1:09:44 B Aramco Houston Half Marathon/USA Half Marathon Championships Houston TX USA 1/18/2015

Neely Spence Gracey 1:09:59 B Rock 'n' Roll Philadelphia Half Marathon Philadelphia PA USA 10/31/2015

Alisha Williams 1:10:32 B Rock 'n' Roll Philadelphia Half Marathon Philadelphia PA USA 10/31/2015

Janet Bawcom 1:10:46 B Aramco Houston Half Marathon/USA Half Marathon Championships Houston TX USA 1/18/2015

Juliet Bottorff 1:11:30 B Aramco Houston Half Marathon/USA Half Marathon Championships Houston TX USA 1/19/2015

Katie Matthews 1:11:57 B Aramco Houston Half Marathon/USA Half Marathon Championships Houston TX USA 1/18/2015

Megan Hogan 1:12:12 B NU Hartford Marathon Hartford CT USA 10/11/2014

Jennifer Rhines 1:12:34 B Publix Gasparilla Half Marathon Tampa FL USA 2/23/2014

I posted a list of some those athletes eligible for a 'B' entry via a half marathon. This partial list is deep enough to indicate where KGs performance would place. Runners with an A or a B via a marathon appear on another list see link.

(because of a faulty link I posted that triggered a Letsrun spam filter I just left the link off--sorry for confusion--tom)

LOL, I love when I read posters making it seem like they're making some bold prediction by stating that Goucher won't make the team.

I think we all know how things are shaping up. A healthy Flanagan and Davila are almost locks, and then it's wide open for 3rd, with lots of athletes in the mix (Burla, Bersagel, Hastings, Kastor, Spence, Erb, Hall, Thweatt, etc.). So in terms of probability, if one were to say, "I think Athlete A won't make the team", you're probably right. If you want to be bold, predict who WILL make the team.

S. Canaday wrote:

I don't think any guys got an OTQ that didn't have one already and many ran the half barely faster than their full marathon PR pace.

I know this doesn't refute your overall point that the course isn't blazing fast, but in regards to the specific statement quoted above I don't think Scott Bauhs had an OTQ before today, did he?

Regarding whether it's a FAST or SLOW course:

I grew up in Monterey about 10 minutes away from the course. It was LITERALLY my training course - sometimes I'd run there from my house. I've run it dozens of times (or segments of it). I've also raced on it numerous times. It's where I've set both my 10K and half marathon PRs.

IT IS A FAST COURSE. Think Carlsbad 5000 fast. There are no hills whatsoever, except for a couple of very gradual inclines. On a sunny day it's difficult to find any shade (there is none.) But it never gets hot in Monterey - usually it's actually overcast and foggy. And of course it's at sea level.

If anyone is looking to run a PR, that is a course to do it on.

(The full marathon is a completely different story - one of the more difficult marathon courses you'll find - though it's also one of the most beautiful).

This doesn't really look like progress. Last year she ran 71:40 at Philadelphia and only managed a 2:37 in New York.

She ran about 5:30 pace at the 10 miler about a month ago and just ran 5:26 pace for the half. She is getting there. Her return to the track this summer was a bit of a disaster, but she seems to be gaining some steam for the trials.

The talent level after Desi and Shalane is not terribly high for the trials. Amy Hastings should be the heir apparent, but she has had a terrible streak of bad performances. Anyone who can run just under 2:30 has a shot. Kara can probably do that and has a shot. She is not done, but is definitely on the second tier well behind Desi and Shalane.

Run007 wrote:

IT IS A FAST COURSE. Think Carlsbad 5000 fast. There are no hills whatsoever, except for a couple of very gradual inclines.

Carlsbad 5000 is not a fast course; people put up fast times there because of the competition quality. The new elite course took out the climb coming back up on the back end but they also do more 180 degree turns.

Ho Hum wrote:

Roslants wrote:

Your imagining doesn't make you right. She was healthy for a long, long time and did nothing. Get a clue dude. I'll bet anyone on this board that she doesn't make top 3. Any takers, just post your email and I'll gladly contact you.

THis is odd. The response is to Roslants but Roslants did not write it.

Actually wrote something quite different.

Good thing I didn't say she was going to do anything, ya doofus. She's had a lot of injuries since the pregnancy and I'd bet it's a result of that toe injury. She could probably run a quick half in the right race, but I'm skeptical if her body can handle the marathon anymore.

he talks in maths wrote:

LOL, I love when I read posters making it seem like they're making some bold prediction by stating that Goucher won't make the team.

I think we all know how things are shaping up. A healthy Flanagan and Davila are almost locks, and then it's wide open for 3rd, with lots of athletes in the mix (Burla, Bersagel, Hastings, Kastor, Spence, Erb, Hall, Thweatt, etc.). So in terms of probability, if one were to say, "I think Athlete A won't make the team", you're probably right. If you want to be bold, predict who WILL make the team.

The marathon is a race of attrition. Predicting marathon outcomes are hard because the distance is as much the enemy as the competitors that toe the line with you. I agree that on paper Flanagan and Davila stand the best chance to make the team but . . .

come the end of Jan I'll join in and give my best guess but 3 months out . . .well stuff happens.

Right now I'll go with Jen Rhines.

Ujsye wrote:

1:11 finish

Olympic hopeful?

I see her as an Olympic hopeful in the 10K, but probably not in the marathon. Her coach, Mark Wetmore, is not a marathon coach and she has been training with track specialists. But she could potentially take a shot at the marathon trials. If it doesn't pan out there would be plenty of time to recover and prepare for the track trials, presuming that she remains healthy.

I live there bonehead, the poster is right, it's pretty much flat with no big elevation change. I don't know what this Sage character is talking about. Great weather and great course. Now the downhill 1/2 that Kara brags about was highly aided, hence her pr that day. But when she runs slower, then it's assumed to be hilly. Again, I've done the race before, it's NOT hilly at all. The Heartbreak Hill comparison is stupidity at its best.

Heartbroken Hill wrote:

LM wrote:

What passes for hilly is always amusing. No its not a blazing course, but it still had a mere 120ft of elevation change. Thats not much different than a pancake.

Id say "hilly" starts at around 600ft and extends all the way up to about 1300ft.

After that we are either talking about mountain running or a climbing road race in some fashion.

Oh, so Boston's Heartbreak Hill does not exist, and the bridge "climbs" in NYC are flat. Well, okay then...

Good for you for going out on a limb, but she's not running the Trials.

No, fred wrote:

I have no clue who either of them are, in fact I suspect the rebuttal was by Kara. However, it was still a great response.

Now go crawl back in your hole.

Laghead wrote:

Not the poster you're responding to, but firstly, it's "Now go crawl back into your hole." Secondly, you can eat the peanuts out of my sh*t wimpy boy. Thirdly, come talk to me when you've broken 20 for a 5k. Lastly, I don't think I'll ever hear from you.

paul.toll_29:3510k@yahoo.com

Aha, now we know who fred is.

Last time I ran it (in 2006, LOL), they added an abrupt detour from the oceanside through the middle of downtown Pacific Grove. This meant a pretty sudden, relatively steep uphill, a few hundred level feet, then an equally steep downhill. Do they still have this detour? Both times I ran it, the turnaround was basically turning around in the street, which doesn't cost that much time, but yet another feature that slows down the course.

Big Sur is my Backyard wrote:

I live there bonehead, the poster is right, it's pretty much flat with no big elevation change. I don't know what this Sage character is talking about. Great weather and great course. Now the downhill 1/2 that Kara brags about was highly aided, hence her pr that day. But when she runs slower, then it's assumed to be hilly. Again, I've done the race before, it's NOT hilly at all. The Heartbreak Hill comparison is stupidity at its best.

Heartbroken Hill wrote:

Oh, so Boston's Heartbreak Hill does not exist, and the bridge "climbs" in NYC are flat. Well, okay then...

Will you at least agree that it's hillier than Houston and Philly?

(no elevation profile, but obviously mostly flat, since downtown or along river)

Sidenote: Can anyone figure out what the "hill" at the end of Houston consists of? I've been there a few times, and I don't remember any hill over the final few miles (through downtown).

Yeah that sounds like one of the bigger hills we ran up. Fairly steep grade I may add...I think alone that hill probably made the course about 10-15sec slower than pancake flat . The U-turn maybe 5sec slow down as at higher velocities this makes more of a difference. The other more gradual "rolling hills" on the course...not super fast like Carlsbad for sure I'd say ( I haven't raced the 5km in Carlsbad, but I've run that stretch while racing the marathon there).Look at the PRs of both the top end of the fields...was anyone PRing??...most experienced, elite marathoners were well off their PRs.I'm just saying all this because I think Kara's run was a rather impressive performance. If she ran Philly the week before she probably would've been 40-45 seconds faster.Sure, more many mid packers in the race that aren't racing at their lactate threshold for a full hour..maybe it is a "PR" type of race (the weather, course measurements and organization was top notch for that). But again, look at the top 10 in the race and consider their PRs.

Otter pup wrote:

Last time I ran it (in 2006, LOL), they added an abrupt detour from the oceanside through the middle of downtown Pacific Grove. This meant a pretty sudden, relatively steep uphill, a few hundred level feet, then an equally steep downhill. Do they still have this detour? Both times I ran it, the turnaround was basically turning around in the street, which doesn't cost that much time, but yet another feature that slows down the course.