Mary Cain is Officially DONE

Mary definitely lost her spring, you can see that in the video..her legs looked dead from the start. This will be a test of Alberto's coaching. She came to him under trained, could handle the increased volume for a short period of time with amazing results and now looks overtrained.

Maybe having her revert back to her HS training for a while will bring her back. She is a thoroughbred and doesn't need the extra work to run fast. Also, a thoroughbred can lose interest pretty fast and never make it back. The next 12 months are going to be touchy for her. If she doesn't bounce back, she'll be gone.

Talent and anti-aging meds from your Doctor Daddy only take you so far.

this is up to Mary now - she needs to decide if she is needs running anymore. Is running good for her or bad for her?

Alberto should turn her loose in a forest for 3 days with nothing but water and some snickers bars. let her figure this out on her own, without people telling her what to do.

Eva Hearda wrote:

Kickapoo Joy Juice wrote:

If you're a pro you don't get much slack, development-wise. If you're being paid, you'd better produce or else you won't get paid much longer.

Ever hear of Galen Rupp?

Yeah, so? This thread is about Mary Cain.

alanson wrote:

I think this has been a real mismatch between a great natural talent and a dogmatic coach. Tragic.

billy bobby wrote:

Agreed.

The two came together under the wrong premise, which was that her mechanics were inferior. As if that is possible for arguably the greatest female distance runner in US history. It is absolutely ludicrous to have taken such a phenom and essentially said, "you're doing it all wrong. let me show you how to move properly, even though I don't know how myself."

Where she used to be fluid and elastic she is now solid and brittle. The energy used to run through her beautifully in an unconscious sort of way, now it looks like her mind is trying to micromanage her body's movements.

Well said.

Salazar's ideas about form are like the centipede that fell in the ditch.

4runner wrote:

Kickapoo Joy Juice wrote:

Well, she's age-wise only a college frosh, but she turned pro. If you're a pro you don't get much slack, development-wise. If you're being paid, you'd better produce or else you won't get paid much longer.

Really??

Do you honestly think that she's in danger of being cut off?

C'mon.

Not this year, but if it doesn't straighten out in 2016 (assuming she doesn't fix 2015), I wonder if she'll be sponsored in 2017.

Mary Decker-Tabb-Decker-Slaney was officially pronounced DONE at one time. Got a job in a running store. Frank Shorter (I think) walked in and she started talking about how she used to be a good runner. He convinced her to start again and she was 1983 World Champ.

It will be interesting to see how it develops.

Some thoughts on the matter are here:

As a former college coach, I do think there can be a lost season. You overtrain and don't back off enough. I mean as a pro running 4:07 gets you nothing. You have to run under 4:03 and you kind of have to force it as USAs are 6 weeks away.

We have definitely seen this before from the Oregon Project. Cam Levins has a lackluster 2013 and 14, then starts dropping bombs indoors in 2015. Centrowitz can't run a fast time in 2013 but ends up with a silver medal, then proceeds to miss his indoor season with a 'virus'. Rupp can't manage a 13:20 5k and then 3 weeks later is doing it back to back with ease, then, guess what, he misses an indoor season because of a 'virus'.

Time and time again we see Oregon Project athletes struggle heavily, and then after a short period of time explode with an unreal performance. I'm no expert, but it looks to me like a fresh infusion of the drugs. Athletes like Cain and Puskedra come in with lots of promise and talent, then get thrown into the hardest training regime in the world. The only way to not over-train is to get on the juice. Al Sal waits until they're at their weakest, and then offers them a choice, be like Mo and Galen, or be like Puskedra. It will be interesting to see how Cain decides to proceed.

And if you're asking, why did Mo never have a stint of overtraining? Its because he walked straight into the dope house from day 1.

correct! because never before the NOP did runners ever plateau and then start improving again!

It's tough to be in her position as a 18-20 year old still figuring everything out. The bubbly outgoing types who want to be the goofball everyones pal type seem to struggle more when on the down swing as well. Just my two cents.

Lots can be said. Way too early in the season and in her career. Nice trolling attempt though. Not. BTW Mary has a better 1500m PR than you. No doubt.

"you're doing it all wrong. let me show you how to move properly, even though I don't know how myself."

exactly. don't mess with success:

(Failed swing change)

(Failed swing change)

(natural form works)

Zatopek (end thread)

Does anybody remember Lynn Jennings? She was "done" too. Before winning 3 World XC Championships and an Olympic medal and setting a world indoor record.

What's the eagerness to declare someone done? She's running way below her previous ability right now. And she is not physically or mentally the same person she was two years ago. She mentally checked out from the sport toward the end of her senior year, though she recovered well to win world juniors. Since then she has been mentally out of the sport as far as I can tell. Some form changes were justified, because her form was really holding her back. When minor changes were made, she excelled. Major changes were probably unwise. But when your physique changes that much, it takes years to adjust. If she is again fully invested in the sport and has adjusted to maturity in a couple years, we may see that prodigy level again where there has been no prospect since Mary Decker close to her level at 800-5000m.

I feel like men should not be commenting on whether or not women are "physically maturing". Or at least, ask a female runner who has been through that first. My biggest body change came at 19, as is very normal. Filling out through high school is one thing. When you go to college, the hips get wider and your body changes shape. You're around hundreds of other women every day and your hormones are affected by that. It takes transition time, but luckily you come out physically stronger and more capable than you could have been in high school. Trust me when I say that she just needs time to get used to her adult body. She'll be fine.

really tho wrote:

Trust me when I say that she just needs time to get used to her adult body. She'll be fine.

true except for the much more common situation of the girls who won foot locker, hit that change and never beat their HS prs.

There is a big difference between being "done" due to injuries and done because your talent level is going backwards due to body changes.

Perhaps, but that is the job of Nike and her coach, not yours or ours."She better get her act together."Oh really? Or else what? Will you make her work extra overtime or something?Jesus, speaking of "weak from the womb." You're a prime example....

truthsayer wrote:

She's the same mold as Rupp, weak from the womb. If things don't go exactly their way, if conditions aren't controlled and they aren't coddled, they crumble. Physically superior but psychologically feeble. This should be no surprise to anybody who has followed her, seen her interviews, mannerisms, etc. She's 19 years old not a high school junior, stop using the physical maturation excuse. This is her JOB, of course people are going to criticize her. If I don't perform up to standards at work, you best believe I'm getting criticized--same as everybody else. Stop making excuses for her and hold her to standards. Most people in most professions get fired when they under-perform this much. She better get her act together