He meant to say "no American white male, and NOP fanboy, has heard of or cares about"
He meant to say "no American white male, and NOP fanboy, has heard of or cares about"
Efficiency is a problem of maximization/minimization. Ideally you want the fastest time possible. It is well accepted that this is achieved by an even pace. Thus, increase the pace while minimizing wasted power. Power is energy per unit time. Therefore one needs to decrease the energy used or increase the time span over which the energy is used. We will not consider that latter. The energy "used" is nothing other than the work done by the said human. Work is force times distance. So, finally, I arrive at my point. We are so caught up in Tadese's arm swing left to right. Noting that gravity acts only in the vertical component. It is clear that there is no work being done in this motion. Tadese is almost like a natural pendulum, i.e. no lost energy. In fact one shouldn't pump there arms at all in the vertical direction, which Rupp does quite frequently. Therefore Rupp's work > Tadese's work over the same amount of time implying that Tadese is actually minimizing power thus being more efficient.
Q.E.D.
errata: there arms should be replaced by their arms
Alberto is wrong (again). Kenyans are getting hurt and burned out because a) the level of competition is so much higher than US running and b) the focus turning to marathon money pushes the mileage of many athletes detrimentally high .
Sleazy has been unable to prove that pretty looking form makes you run faster so he invented a new lie, that those who don't look pretty get injured.
Fan of Alberto and Tadese wrote:
sadfsdfjsldfkasdf wrote:Definitely need a citation on this.
Spoken to a crowd at the coaches clinic in the Stanford Theatre on the Nike Campus at NXN. He was saying how there are fast Kenyans always popping up, but only for 2-3 years before they'd get hurt due to bad form, which is when he then mentioned Tadese, who of course is Eritrean and had a run of about 9 years of exceptional form from 2004-2012. He did say he thought the Ethiopians had excellent form.
It was a great session. I came away as a big fan of Salazar who seemed very open to sharing his ideas and has a good working relationship with those that were there as well, which was Rupp, Cain, Farah, and Centro.
I wasn't trying to be inflammatory, although realize that happens easily on this board and especially given the fact Salazar was chuckling at Tadese's expense. I was mostly curious to see if others had an opinion one way or another on Tadese's form versus Rupp's. I think they both look pretty good, but give the nod to Tadese.
I don't think it's fair to compare times straight across either, as something tells me that Tadese has a bit of an advantage beyond 10,000m being East African.
Rupp:
3000 m 7:30.16 (AR, NR) February 21, 2013 XL Galan Stockholm, SWE
5000 m 12:58.90 June 2, 2012 Prefontaine Classic
10,000 m 26:44.36 (AR, NR) May 30, 2014 Prefontaine Classic
Half marathon 1:00:30 March 20, 2011 New York City Half Marathon
Tadese:
3000 m 7:39.93 Doha, Qatar 13 May 2005
Two miles 8:19.34 Eugene, Oregon, United States 10 June 2007
5000 m 12:59.27 Rome, Italy 14 July 2006
10,000 m 26:37.25 Brussels, Belgium 25 August 2006
15 km 41:34+ Udine, Italy 14 October 2007
20 km 55:21+ Lisbon, Portugal 21 March 2010
Half marathon 58:23 Lisbon, Portugal 21 March 2010
Agree.
Is this thread a joke? We're debating whose had the better career Tadesse or Rupp? And then people are comparing 3k prs?
Please.
Tadesse has had the better career. End of story. Ok, Rupp's may have been better in the sense he may have made more money. That's about it.
Yes, Rupp has an Olympic silver to Tadesse's bronze, Tadesse more than makes up with World Champ 10k silver, 6 world titles (one xc, 5 half marathon/20k), and a world record.
And as noted, Tadesse also has a better 10,000 pb than Rupp.
Head to head, it's not even close. Tadese 4, Rupp 1.
Zersenay Tadese ERI Galen Rupp USA
10000 m WC Osaka 2007-08-27 27:21.37 (4) 28:41.71 (11)
10000 m OG Beijing 2008-08-17 27:05.11 (5) 27:36.99 (13)
10000 m WC Berlin 2009-08-17 26:50.12 (2) 27:37.99 (8)
10000 m WC Daegu 2011-08-28 27:22.57 (4) 27:26.84 (7)
10000 m OG London 2012-08-04 27:33.51 (6) 27:30.90 (2)
Wins: 4 1
Great form hasn't made Rupp better than Tadese. It may have helped him get Olympic silver but I'll take Paula Radcliffe's form and results any day.
Whose?
rojo wrote:
Is this thread a joke? We're debating whose had the better career Tadesse or Rupp? And then people are comparing 3k prs?
Please.
Tadesse has had the better career. End of story. Ok, Rupp's may have been better in the sense he may have made more money. That's about it.
Yes, Rupp has an Olympic silver to Tadesse's bronze, Tadesse more than makes up with World Champ 10k silver, 6 world titles (one xc, 5 half marathon/20k), and a world record.
And as noted, Tadesse also has a better 10,000 pb than Rupp.
Head to head, it's not even close. Tadese 4, Rupp 1.
Zersenay Tadese ERI Galen Rupp USA
10000 m WC Osaka 2007-08-27 27:21.37 (4) 28:41.71 (11)
10000 m OG Beijing 2008-08-17 27:05.11 (5) 27:36.99 (13)
10000 m WC Berlin 2009-08-17 26:50.12 (2) 27:37.99 (8)
10000 m WC Daegu 2011-08-28 27:22.57 (4) 27:26.84 (7)
10000 m OG London 2012-08-04 27:33.51 (6) 27:30.90 (2)
Wins: 4 1
Great form hasn't made Rupp better than Tadese. It may have helped him get Olympic silver but I'll take Paula Radcliffe's form and results any day.
Tadesse's competition was much better too, wasn't it (a prime Bekele)? So his bronze and 4th places are better than Rupp's silver. Not a knock against Rupp, just stating the truth.
I don't want Paula Radcliffe's results -
World finals
1993, 3000 m, 7th
1997, 5000 m, 4th
1999, 10,000 m, Silver
2001, 10,000 m, 4th
2005, 10,000 m, 9th
2005, Marathon, Gold
Olympic finals
1996, 5000 m, 5th
2000, 10,000 m, 4th
2004, Marathon, DNF
2004, 10,000 m, DNF
2008, Marathon, 23rd
Breathe in breathe out wrote:
yyyy wrote:Can someone actually provide a link or source for Salazar's statements? Also, pretty form is different than useful/efficient form.
sadfsdfjsldfkasdf wrote:
Definitely need a citation on this.
This is LetsRun, we're not too big on "facts" and "sources"
Agree, the main strategy of the forum-goers is to use ad hominem attacks in order to 'prove their point'.
also mention wrote:
Tadesse's competition was much better too, wasn't it (a prime Bekele)? So his bronze and 4th places are better than Rupp's silver. Not a knock against Rupp, just stating the truth.
A prime Bekele indeed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9SrdbrDcdQKim,
Your posts are written in absolutely abysmal English. It would give you a lot more credibility if you edited your drivel before posting.
Good video. I thought the session was excellent and that Salazar made some good points.
While I am not an expert on elite distance running biomechanics, the stuff he said made total sense to me.
The Tadese quip was beside the point, IMO. The point was that he's trying to help other coaches. Good for him.
Cotner wrote:
Kim,
Your posts are written in absolutely abysmal English. It would give you a lot more credibility if you edited your drivel before posting.
Hmmm, > plain old abysmal?
are they giving points and totals for running form now (a la gymnastics and diving - or maybe synchronized swimming / rhythmic gymnastics). When did this happen? I'm a little late to the game but someone told me Salazar's form was something that ranked.
unless you're in jr hi you don't effectively elevate one's performance by denigrating another
no one wrote:
unless you're in jr hi you don't effectively elevate one's performance by denigrating another
Because he got through life on running merits rather than academic Salazar remains at a jr high level.
i agree with AlSal--rupp has better form. no question about it.
but unlike diving, form don't count. at the end of the day it's how fast you run.
lagat has the best form i've ever seen. i love watching him run.
radcliffe and benoit-samuelson are both horrible to watch.
It's a really good thing that no one ever told zatopek about form.