AMERICANS DISAPPOINT IN CHICAGO

YUKI KAWAUCHI is an enigmatic outlier?

Major BS! Multiple club systems abound. The 1980s marathon training philosophy needs to go. Forget about trying to compete with the kenyans, it's never gonna happen. Instead, it's better to go and train with the kenyans and try to run 206-207s consistently.

unimpressed cat wrote:

27:46 this year predicts he should have run 2:07-09 (based on vDOT)

VDOT tables do not predict anything.

Well, if you understand what they actually represent, they ARE a fair tool for evaluation.

Most of these guys Curtis, Llano, Landry, Riley) have much better PRs than guys like Eggleston, but none of them ran as fast as he did. Maybe they should train with him.

Le Chapeau wrote:

Why didn't guys like Jones and Shorter and Rodgers need support to train?

If you have the ability, you don't need support.

This post really bugs me. It is a different world today than it was in the 70s.

First of all, marathoning is so much more competitive today that young Americans do not see world records and olympic medals as a realistic or even "long shot" possibilities.

Secondly, recent college grads face much tougher financial pressures than the runners in the 70s did. Everything is more expensive now relative to wages: housing, food, healthcare, and most importantly, student loan debt.

I don't blame young runners for not putting their lives on hold to chase their olympic dreams. It's simply too risky these days. If they all did, a quarter of them would end up bankrupt from healthcare costs and student loan debt.

get ugly wrote:

Le Chapeau wrote:

Why didn't guys like Jones and Shorter and Rodgers need support to train?

If you have the ability, you don't need support.

This post really bugs me. It is a different world today than it was in the 70s.

First of all, marathoning is so much more competitive today that young Americans do not see world records and olympic medals as a realistic or even "long shot" possibilities.

Secondly, recent college grads face much tougher financial pressures than the runners in the 70s did. Everything is more expensive now relative to wages: housing, food, healthcare, and most importantly, student loan debt.

I don't blame young runners for not putting their lives on hold to chase their olympic dreams. It's simply too risky these days. If they all did, a quarter of them would end up bankrupt from healthcare costs and student loan debt.

Cop out. Every other record is faster now, what makes the Marathon so special?

With Ebola, the Enterovirus, open borders and potential attacks in the US by ISIS/ISIL/Al-Qaeda, US marathoners not breaking 2:11 ain't no big thing.

We have more pressing issues.

Nice that so many were under 2:15, I can't do that.

Maybe it's been mentioned, as I didn't read the whole thread, but these are second tier guys at best. You can't expect our second tier guys to put up some of the fastest times ever in the Marathon for American-born men.

If Rupp, True, Jager, etc. were running 2:14 in the marathon then it'd be more dissapointing.

These guys did an excellent job today, I'm quite impressed.

El Gisallah wrote:

If Rupp, True, Jager, etc. were running 2:14 in the marathon then it'd be more dissapointing.

These guys did an excellent job today, I'm quite impressed.

But Rupp, True, and Jager are not running the marathon, and who else is "etc."? A lot of depth there?

Le Chapeau wrote:

get ugly wrote:

This post really bugs me. It is a different world today than it was in the 70s.

First of all, marathoning is so much more competitive today that young Americans do not see world records and olympic medals as a realistic or even "long shot" possibilities.

Secondly, recent college grads face much tougher financial pressures than the runners in the 70s did. Everything is more expensive now relative to wages: housing, food, healthcare, and most importantly, student loan debt.

I don't blame young runners for not putting their lives on hold to chase their olympic dreams. It's simply too risky these days. If they all did, a quarter of them would end up bankrupt from healthcare costs and student loan debt.

Cop out. Every other record is faster now, what makes the Marathon so special?

Because the marathon is the LAST event our talented runners try. Only when they are not good enough on the track anymore, or in the infrequent (Ryan Hall) if they get injured doing track work.

For East Africans it's the opposite, many talented runners go to the marathon ASAP.

That is why the marathon is so "special."

The real issue in US competitiveness is the structure of the system. Financial considerations aside, most of the top Kenyan talent now begins with the marathon from age 17+. This would never happen in the US, we are not set up for that approach. The days of runners graduating from the track or even small time road races to the marathon are fading. It is getting to th point that unless one specializes in the marathon from a younger age, ones ability to compete with those that do will fade.

Is that what we have sunk to as a nation? Proud of being in the top five marathoning nations? Really?

Wow, this new generation is killing America.

Why don't you just start watching baseball and football, then you could brag that America is the best because no one else cares about it.

IMO wrote:

iBetween Landry, Curtis, Llano, and the other Hanson's Brooks guys I thought we'd have a handful under 2:10.

You're either a glowing optimist or igorant of the history of U.S. marathon running or both. When have there ever been "a handful under 2:10" in one race? The three runners you mention by name all appear to have sub-2:10 potential, but two of them were debuting and the other one was running his second marathon after a 2:13 opener.

runn wrote:

Why don't you just start watching baseball and football, then you could brag that America is the best because no one else cares about it.

Americans did not finish in the top 4 of the World Baseball Classic, nor the top 8 of the Football World Cup, unless by football you mean hand-egg. Of course, England are worse at all the aforementioned sports, so I can't really speak.

Beacause they all have 10k/half marathon prs much faster than guys like Eggleston, Sell, and Gotcher, but they were all able to run 2:10.

Landry runs a 32 mile long run and 150 mile weeks,

Bekele runs a 2 hr 30 minute long run and 120 mile weeks,

Kipchoge runs a 26.2 mile lung run before Chicago.

Kipchoge wins.

Correlation?

AMERICANS ARE RUNNING TOO MUCH!

Strive for Greatness wrote:

Is that what we have sunk to as a nation? Proud of being in the top five marathoning nations? Really?

Wow, this new generation is killing America.

You're right. Our country would be much better if more of us would sit on our asses while demanding great things from other people.

What kind of screwed up world view leads a person to believe that striving for greatness is a matter of holding other people to an unrealistically high standard? Striving for greatness is about expecting the best from yourself.

strange world view wrote:

Strive for Greatness wrote:

Is that what we have sunk to as a nation? Proud of being in the top five marathoning nations? Really?

Wow, this new generation is killing America.

You're right. Our country would be much better if more of us would sit on our asses while demanding great things from other people.

What kind of screwed up world view leads a person to believe that striving for greatness is a matter of holding other people to an unrealistically high standard? Striving for greatness is about expecting the best from yourself.