Solinsky 13.50 at 5000m

Been there, done that, I have 20+ years of experience of distance running from 800m to the marathon. I have studied also the theory of coaching very well, because I was my coach. In my philosophy you should already have the under-distance speed before the marathon spesific work. But how you can expect to gain that after a long time without faster work, especially in the case of aging runner like Chris Solinsky.

Logic wrote:

I root for him to continue to improve but for anyone to say he is on the right path is lying to themselves. At this point 2:12 (which is far from even respectable for a sub 27 athlete) is a distant dream and unfortunately we are looking at a guy who will run between 2:16-2:20 or dnf. Again maybe he had another setback, however nothing we are currently seeing is positive for Chris.

Both this 5K and his 25K from back in May grade out to about a 2:14-mid marathon. I think that is about the absolute best that could expected from him if he even manages to start one.

No sh.t. You don't think people understand that? What I'm saying is I don't believe in the legitimacy of what Chris did in 2010. It's "not normal", to say the least. And it was only for a couple month period.

Without blood doping I do not believe he can compete at anything above 800. I don't think he can compete at the 800 either, quite honestly, but with his muscle mass I'd say that's his only chance if he's clean.

I'd like to point out that he mentioned that the temperature was not ideal. Even Trevor Dunbar ran a slowish time for himself (13:39?). I believe that might have slowed the pace up. It is safe to say that he is probably more like 13:40ish shape in an ideal weather conditions.

I was not being childish. Many of you are just bringing up the same points over and over again and contribute (until this post really) any new information. It's really pathetic how many of you just state the same phrase 'Solinsky hasn't run X and therefor is DONE.' That my friend is childish. You are assuming way to much about his training, his goals and his focus by dismissing him that easily.

If he is marathon focused, why should his 1500m be any faster than last year? I doubt (and I know it is contradicting for me to say this) he is any X times 400m workouts right now. I doubt he is doing anything to focus on his 1500m except for running 1500m races. That is a SAFE guess because he stated (in his interview) that he feels those races were like sprints. Why? Because he is focusing on longer and slower runs. Safe guess.

For me to make a specific concrete prediction would put me at the same level as all you naysayers who are ready to put a nail in the coffin. I am not going to predict that next year Solinsky will run X time. I will predict that you will see more of the old (young?) Solinsky next year.

Solinsky has always been a bounder. Very much unlike Rupp who has a high frequency.

It is funny how your name is 'Logic' and that your post is filled with illogical beliefs.

I am glad you can point out the obvious, just like 90% of other posters here have stated. Yes, Solinsky has run 13:50. Yes, that is 27 seconds slower than last year. One thing I don't think you understand is the main focus right now. Marathon training can DEFINITELY bring your 5k down that much, especially if you are not FOCUSING on running track but FOCUSING on running a fall or spring marathon and some fall road races. He has been quiet open about how things have been going the past year since his comeback. He has not mentioned an injury, he is just being cautionary and changing his primary FOCUS away from the TRACK. Want me to say that again?

Once again you guys have these bold predictions. You guys will definitely eat crow when the time comes.

Hey. Great job dude. I am sure you are just a master coach then huh? How many elites have you trained? What is your 5k pr? marathon? Make sure to back it up with some legit sources. Because I am SURE that you are just so wise for coaching an elite athlete like Chris. I am sure Schumacher would love to hear what you have to say.

'You should already have that under distance speed before the marathon specific work.' Okay! That is some pretty good advice! I wonder what a good way to get the 'under distance speed' would be? How about, after getting a good training base in, Solinsky should go to EUROPE and just do some low-key races where he can fine tone some of that 'under distance speed' and do some road races in the fall (like the Beach to Beacon 10k??) and then a spring marathon!

Sounds like a GREAT PLAN. Because that is almost EXACTLY what he is doing. But your blind ignorance won't see the bigger picture. You are so wrapped up in the here and now.

well that makes more sense to me, I didn't know it was hot. then that would indicate he could be in low 1340s shape right now. that's ok. not great, but ok.

also, I'm not arguing that he should be faster than last year at 1500, just that I didn't expect his 5k to slow so much. honestly with another year of healthy training (even marathon training) you wouldn't expect him to be so much slower. his fitness should be improving. but I think time will tell. if he comes out with a sub 220 marathon debut(I'm being generous marathon debuts are a bit of a crap shoot) then I think he's on the right track and it would indicate you are right that he's improving his endurance and sacrificing speed. however, so far this data point I've cited indicates he's worse at 5k vs 1500 relative to last year, which is what you'd expect if he was focusing more on speed (the opposite of reality).

I will reiterate. I am a HUGE fan of him. I want him to succeed. I think if he's patient and healthy he has plenty of time to improve at the marathon. we'll know more as we get more data.

What did I say that illogical?

"He is way slower this year than last. 13:23 vs 13:50 no matter what type of training he's been doing (marathon, base, etc.) he should not have regressed that much with consistent training. So unless there was another injury or setback that we are not aware of at this time. We should at least be seeing similar performances. I mean come on his seasonal best currently is as close to Molly huddle as it is to galen rupp (really think about that.)

I root for him to continue to improve but for anyone to say he is on the right path is lying to themselves. At this point 2:12 (which is far from even respectable for a sub 27 athlete) is a distant dream and unfortunately we are looking at a guy who will run between 2:16-2:20 or dnf. Again maybe he had another setback, however nothing we are currently seeing is positive for Chris."

At the end I stated an opinion of what I think he will perform at in the marathon. I listed his performances those times are as close to huddle as rupp 2:12 lousy for a sub 27 guy! I mean seriously who in there right mind thinks that someone should be 30 seconds slower than their previous years 5k, damn near a minute slower than their pr, when training for anything. Actually you totally ignoring the part where I mentioned that maybe Chris was injured again or had another setback that just hasn't been made public and that's the reason for the regression, just shows that you're blindly defending the guy without taking an objective look at what's actually going on. I want him to get better, but he's currently going the wrong direction. Sorry man.

You really didn't say anything that was illogical. I mainly just wanted to take a jab at your name.

You haven't read anything I have been posting, have you? Your opinion is baloney. His focus this year is not running a fast track time. His focus isn't the same as 2013, 2011, or 2010. It is now focused on marathoning. On getting his mileage up. Read what I said to sdfgbhjmkl above. You're just bringing up the same things over and over again. Please, try a rebuttal or place something new on the table.

coach comments nicely wrote:

I wonder what a good way to get the 'under distance speed' would be? How about, after getting a good training base in, Solinsky should go to EUROPE and just do some low-key races where he can fine tone some of that 'under distance speed' and do some road races in the fall (like the Beach to Beacon 10k??) and then a spring marathon!

Sounds like a GREAT PLAN. Because that is almost EXACTLY what he is doing. But your blind ignorance won't see the bigger picture. You are so wrapped up in the here and now.

It´s not EXACTLY what I would recommend to do, because I would make sure that Solinsky would do frequent, year-round training at under distance speeds too, not just 4:40+ pace mileage.

What is your pr´s and how many elites have you trained? These irrelevant questions won´t change the fact that Solinsky´s results are not even improving throughout the track season, and that he´s so far even from last year´s results. I don´t think that Solinsky´s training has been optimal for him, even for a fall/spring marathon, who´s asset has been an enormous aerobic capacity coupled with a good anaerobic capacity.

Look at these results and think about it:

1500 m 3:35.89 April 15, 2011

2014: 3:46,55

3000 m 7:34.32 August 29, 2010

2014: 8:00,46

5000 m 12:55.53 August 6, 2010

2014: 13:50,23

10,000 m 26:59.60 May 1, 2010

2014: 29.05,41

Looking at these results everyone who has a good knowledge of distance running can understand that slogging only 4:40+ pace mileage isn´t very wise for Solinsky, who turns thirty soon. You can see that his pb´s are only 3-4 years old, but his speed has worsened dramatically after that.

Doing only 4:40+ pace mileage and then some faster training and races and imaging that the speed will automatically come back is not the best strategy for him, I´m sure of that. Maybe it´s you who should learn more.

Solinsky has been with Schumacher for over 10 years now. Your ideas on what Chris should be doing and what he shouldn't be doing is irrelevant and non entirely worth arguing about because I am not going to take it seriously. Why? Because I promise you that Schumacher knows exactly what he is doing.

"What is your pr´s and how many elites have you trained? These irrelevant questions won´t change the fact that Solinsky´s results are not even improving throughout the track season, and that he´s so far even from last year´s results. I don´t think that Solinsky´s training has been optimal for him, even for a fall/spring marathon, who´s asset has been an enormous aerobic capacity coupled with a good anaerobic capacity."

No, I think it is a relevant question. Here you are on your high and mighty troll stool telling Schumacher, who is a proven coach, that he is doing his job wrong. He's coached Solinsky to an AR, Jager to an AR, Tegenkamp to an AR and many other things. They are not improving because his focus isn't on improving them right now. Seriously. Get with the program here and bring up some new stuff. HE IS NOT TRYING TO RUN FAST ON THE TRACK. Get it?

coach comments nicely wrote:

Solinsky has been with Schumacher for over 10 years now. Here you are on your high and mighty troll stool telling Schumacher, who is a proven coach, that he is doing his job wrong. He's coached Solinsky to an AR, Jager to an AR, Tegenkamp to an AR and many other things. They are not improving because his focus isn't on improving them right now. Seriously. Get with the program here and bring up some new stuff. HE IS NOT TRYING TO RUN FAST ON THE TRACK. Get it?

I never have trolled here that Scumacher is doing his job wrong. Only critizising the training without speed. Solinsky aged almost 30 is a different case than 10 years ago, when he was young and his speed was there even after maybe a long time without fast training. As you get older you have a harder time to regain your speed and VO2max levels. You know, the VO2max still has something to do especially at the middle distances and it will deteriorate when you get older, especially if you don´t touch speed for a long time.

I know that HE IS NOT TRYING TO RUN FAST ON THE TRACK, it´s obvious based on his results, but for the reasons I´ve told earlier I think that HE SHOULD TRY TO RUN QUITE FAST ON THE TRACK TOO, no matter what distance he´s training for. Got it?

If you look up the results you can see few runners came close to their pb's. At the starting line it still was something like 81 degrees. Way to hot to run a decent time i think. But indeed 13:50 is not what you may expect from him, even in that heat.