Who has the fastest PB's for both the 400m and 1500m?

hitmonlee wrote:

When people talk about short sprinters being the most talented, it's examples like these guys who prove that wrong. The most talented runners have both. Speed and range.

We all know Webb was good for a faster 800m than he ever ran..

No, we all don't know that. I seriously doubt Webb was capable of much faster in the 800. Possibly low 1:43/high 1:42, but that's be pushing it. Webb was better on the upper end of the distances (5000, 10000), whereas Coe for example was more talented on the lower end.

Does Aouita have any marks of note in the 400m

Why is this thread still going? It's Coe by a country mile. Find anyone else under 47 and under 3:30.

Subfive wrote:

Earlier this year, I argued that Farah could probably sprint (FAT) a sub 12 100m. But there are those who say ...no, he can't. He actually did 12.9 in an relatively serious race. I suspect he can't go faster than that.

The belief by some "knowers-of-running" is that most of these star distance runners can not break 12 for 100m...even if they can can close in 53-51 in distance races.

You have no idea if that race was a serious performance by Farah or not. He can obviously run much faster if he closed a race in 50 seconds.

kiprop got 3-27

and 48 on a dirt track

Middle Distance Coach wrote:

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Could you post a link, please? If this is true, Webb was capable of running much, much faster at 800 meters.

He ran 1:43 in '07 - two seconds off ther WR at that time. Just how much faster was he supposed to be able to run? Especially considering he wasn't an 800m specialist. Juantorena ran a 44.2PR for the 400 and his best 800 was 1:43.4.

Certainly faster than Cram (1:42.88) who was considerably slower at 400 meters, faster than Symmonds (1:42.95), who is about 4 seconds slower at 1500 meters, and faster than Peter Elliott (1:42.97), who was slower at both...

I would take 1 100m run during a triple as an upper estimate of a guys a max speed. For all we know that into a 4 mph wind. Have him run 4 a year and his 60/200 times suggest he would be a 10.9 to 11.1 guy.The problem is finding an 800m with a 100m time. For example Mark Everett with his 44.59 could probably broken 11 but good luck finding a legit time. He gets bonus points for knowing how to use blocks:).There are a ton of times thrown out there with very little to back them up. Unless it is a FAT time from a meet all distance runner times should be counted more along the lines of urban legends than reality.

Hardloper wrote:

jjjjyhsh wrote:

Who are these plenty? Let's see some numbers. And he said 11.3 at worst.the question he answered was ''can they break 12?".

Are you joking? Finding sub-48 400 runners who can't break 11 is super easy. Here is the first guy I pulled off the D3 performance list:

http://www.directathletics.com/athletes/track/3258189.html

11.27, 47.66

Let's see the numbers of someone - even ONE guy - who's best distance is 800 who can run 11.3.

Dave Strang from UK ran 45.5 relay leg and won Bronze in Commonwealth Games 4x400m in 1990, then won the silver at the world indoor championships 1500m in 1994 in around 3:38. Cant think of any other person to win semi-major medals in those two events..1996 Olympian in the 800m

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Middle Distance Coach wrote:

He ran 1:43 in '07 - two seconds off ther WR at that time. Just how much faster was he supposed to be able to run? Especially considering he wasn't an 800m specialist. Juantorena ran a 44.2PR for the 400 and his best 800 was 1:43.4.

Certainly faster than Cram (1:42.88) who was considerably slower at 400 meters, faster than Symmonds (1:42.95), who is about 4 seconds slower at 1500 meters, and faster than Peter Elliott (1:42.97), who was slower at both...

That's an absurdly idiotic comparison. First, I seriously doubt Cram was considerably slower than Webb over 400m. And you really expect Webb's 800PR to be better than an 800m specialist who finished 2nd in the WC? If so, your logic is seriously flawed.

Middle Distance Coach wrote:

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Certainly faster than Cram (1:42.88) who was considerably slower at 400 meters, faster than Symmonds (1:42.95), who is about 4 seconds slower at 1500 meters, and faster than Peter Elliott (1:42.97), who was slower at both...

That's an absurdly idiotic comparison. First, I seriously doubt Cram was considerably slower than Webb over 400m. And you really expect Webb's 800PR to be better than an 800m specialist who finished 2nd in the WC? If so, your logic is seriously flawed.

Deano can give you the exact numbers, but Cram was capable of around a 48-flat 400 at best. Webb ran many 800s, the only reason he did not run it more often was because--until he had his breakthrough 1:43--he typically ran, IIRC, 1:47s or thereabouts. Which is, of course, why I find the notion of him running a 47.3 open 400 questionable--it doesn't match his performance at 800 meters.

This is interesting, but I find Ashton Eaton's 27' LJ/ 4:14.5 1500m combo far more interesting. Is there anyone else who has ever done this or could have?

A lot of people think middle distance is about pure speed and aerobic endurance. This is not true. I've seen runners with very good speed and very good endurance that did not have the ability to produce energy anaerobically or to withstand the bi-products.

I've also seen people who were very good at 400m - 1500m, but had surprisingly poor speed and endurance.

Cram is a good example. He was not overly fast or overly good at 5000 or 10,000m but was among the best ever at 800m and 1500m.

He beat Aouita, who was quite fast over 400m (46.9) and 10,000m (27:26). Cram was nowhere near those speeds.

jjjjyhsh wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Realism" is downright clueless. There are runners who can break 48 but not break 12.0 for 100 meters, especially mid-distance types with great speed endurance but no need for acceleration. If he doesn't see how that's possible, he doesn't understand athletics.

Sub-five's guess was pretty close, some of those guys could break 12, a few of them could not break 12, none of them could run 11.3.

As usual, you're wrong. I know a few fast miles at that level that could indeed run 11.3.

lol lol lol lol wrote:

Hardloper wrote:

Let's see the numbers of someone - even ONE guy - who's best distance is 800 who can run 11.3.

I recall a Mr. Jarmila Kratochvílová who ran 100 meters in 11.09 a couple of seasons before he broke the WR in the 800. He also broke the WR in the 400 that year, so his basic speed was probably no worse at that time. And his margin over his competitors was much larger in the 800 than 400.

Plenty of other gentlemen have been capable of this; certainly Alberto Juantorena was, and since he set two WRs at 800 meters and none at 400 meters, the 800 was probably his best event. IIRC, he ran the first 200 of his anchor leg in the 4 x 400 relay at the 1976 Olympics in 20.2, in a futile effort to chase down the leaders.

Wouldn't their best distance be more like 600 then? But yes those are good examples, about as good as they get. Even Rudisha couldn't run those 100m times.

The best "lifetime" example is Brandon Johnson - 10.41 / 1:43, more than a decade apart... He might still be able to run in the low-to-mid 11s thanks to excellent sprint technique alone.

IdiotProof wrote:

A lot of people think middle distance is about pure speed and aerobic endurance. This is not true. I've seen runners with very good speed and very good endurance that did not have the ability to produce energy anaerobically or to withstand the bi-products.

I've also seen people who were very good at 400m - 1500m, but had surprisingly poor speed and endurance.

Cram is a good example. He was not overly fast or overly good at 5000 or 10,000m but was among the best ever at 800m and 1500m.

He beat Aouita, who was quite fast over 400m (46.9) and 10,000m (27:26). Cram was nowhere near those speeds.

Aouita, to the best of my knowledge, never ran that claimed 46.9 in an actual race. Where that comes from, I have no idea...

dsa351 wrote:

This is interesting, but I find Ashton Eaton's 27' LJ/ 4:14.5 1500m combo far more interesting. Is there anyone else who has ever done this or could have?

Curtis Beach with a slightly more balanced 25'10" / 3:59. Could be an 800 guy if he wanted.

Hardloper wrote:

jjjjyhsh wrote:

As usual, you're wrong. I know a few fast miles at that level that could indeed run 11.3.

Since you obviously won't name names, let me guess: Gerry Lindgren (in practice), Jeremy Wariner (once he realizes he's a miler of course), and Jim Ryun (converted from a 13.0 in an uphill snowstorm)

Hardloper - Did you ever compete professionally?

adsadfsfas wrote:

I would take 1 100m run during a triple as an upper estimate of a guys a max speed. For all we know that into a 4 mph wind. Have him run 4 a year and his 60/200 times suggest he would be a 10.9 to 11.1 guy.

He has several results listed and 11.26 was the fastest (11.66 more recent PR). That was literally the first guy I clicked on. I am certain you could find more 47.x 400 runners who are that slow.

Breakin it Down wrote:

Hardloper - Did you ever compete professionally?

No, D3 wannabe who hopes to get good and win some small marathons someday. I am a way more prominent LetsRun dweeb...