I agree.
I've been to both as well. Nike is where you go if you can make it as a team. It's better to be there with your friends and teammates.
Footlocker is great for individuals.
Both are great races. Both could improve their courses. I'm surprised that in the beauty of Mt. Hood a real xc course could not be found/made/used.
Hhuujjj wrote:
RunSpokane wrote:Wilmot ran 8:57 (or was it 8:56) his soph year.
He ran 8:57 at 3,200 as a Soph (so I gave the dinettes time)
To the guy that mentioned that there is no correlation between 2 mile PRs at FL. The list above sort of invalidates that statement. Cheserek, LV, Solinsky... They were all pretty good at 2 miles... Indeed the fastest 2 mile runner does not always win (Hanry is a striking example), but, it is a very good indication...
It loses it's meaning a little bit when you consider Wilmot pretty much sat out last track season, though (he raced a couple of times, but was really still trying to recover from the injury that finally got to be too much for him in October last year, and wasn't really ever back from it until about 7 weeks ago)
I agree that track times can give SOME indication of how good guys/fields are, though there is (obviously) a difference between running a 3200m on a track vs. running a 5k cross country race - some are better at one than the other, and there are other factors to consider (training, competition, was it the only race they ran when focusing on it, etc.). ... it'll mean more if we can see how they stack up at the end of this year, though it still will have it's faults.
Interesting that both of the runners with the best 3200m PR's at the meets didn't win (Haney and Hardy). But maybe that won't be the case this spring (though as Haney has always been more of a track guy, I don't think that part will change)
runn wrote:
This is EXACTLY why what nike has done is inexcusable.
It's like having two watches on. You never really know what the correct time is.
Why do you say this? FL had the chance to go with the team concept, they did not and lost.
I am talking about the INDIVIDUAL national champion. For years, there was ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT in anybody's mind that the footlocker winner was THE national champion.
Now there are TWO races that recognize individual champions. Unless the same runner wins both races, there will ALWAYS be a doubt as to who the true national champion is.
I have no problem with Nike starting a team race but it should have been left at that. You have more than enough great runners on those teams to have a great race without bringing in individual runners not on a team.
The end result is that NEITHER of these races can EVER claim a true national champion.
runn wrote:
This is EXACTLY why what nike has done is inexcusable.
It's like having two watches on. You never really know what the correct time is.
Why do you say this? FL had the chance to go with the team concept, they did not and lost.
I am talking about the INDIVIDUAL national champion. For years, there was ABSOLUTELY NO DOUBT in anybody's mind that the footlocker winner was THE national champion.
Now there are TWO races that recognize individual champions. Unless the same runner wins both races, there will ALWAYS be a doubt as to who the true national champion is.
I have no problem with Nike starting a team race but it should have been left at that. You have more than enough great runners on those teams to have a great race without bringing in individual runners not on a team.
The end result is that NEITHER of these races can EVER claim a true national champion.
17:30 was Missouri state champ who ran 15:30ish or so on tough state course.Obviously had a bad day.
Hhuujjj wrote:
Hhuujjj wrote:I see on Athletic.net that Grant Fisher's 2 mile PR is 9:04. If that is correct, when is the last time that a FL winner had such a slow 2 mile PR?
Let me try:
2012 Cheserek 8:42
2011 Cheserek 8:42
2010 LV 8:53
2009 LV 8:53
2008 Haile ????
2007 Fout 8:58
2006 C. Hall 9:01
2005 Acosta ??
2004 Cormier ??
2003 Withrow ??
2002 Solinsky 8:51
2001 Moore 9:03
2000 Ritz 8:41 (3200)
1999 Ritz 8:58 (3200)
So maybe Haile, Acosta, Cormier or Withrow
...anyway, Wilmot, NXN champion (the national champion) has a 2 mile PR of 9:00 and he beat the guy with the fastest 2 mile PR in HS (Haney)...
Hall actually ran 8:58 as a Junior.
Cormier ran 8:49
Acosta would go onto run 8:462mile (8:43 3200) his junior year he ran 8:57 or so.
Couple of things to note, times mean nothing at a national championship. That is somehting that many people on Letsrun have a hard time grasping. This race was a ultimate tactical affair, but at the end of the day you must pay more attention to the placings.
I was at the meet and chatting with some of the many college coaches there. They expressed a similar feeling and that they were more interested in seeing how they handled the pressure, result, were they demoralized by a bad performance or hungry for more etc. I was also told that many of the College coaches at the meet for a little bummed that the top guys were all Juniors, because they were not allowed to talk to any of them until after their Junior year.
MW wrote:
Totally disagree!!! Been to both with athletes and FL is by far the best for individuals and by far the best course (except the Orlando course) Balboa is a great XC course.
The races today were excellent at FL.
Agree.
It's good to have both. And the kids today are lucky to have such riches of opportunities.
LV ran 8:29...
Hhuujjj wrote:
I see on Athletic.net that Grant Fisher's 2 mile PR is 9:04. If that is correct, when is the last time that a FL winner had such a slow 2 mile PR?
Let me try:
2012 Cheserek 8:42
2011 Cheserek 8:42
2010 LV 8:53
2009 LV 8:53
2008 Haile ????
2007 Fout 8:58
2006 C. Hall 9:01
2005 Acosta ??
2004 Cormier ??
2003 Withrow ??
2002 Solinsky 8:51
2001 Moore 9:03
2000 Ritz 8:41 (3200)
1999 Ritz 8:58 (3200)
So maybe Haile, Acosta, Cormier or Withrow
...anyway, Wilmot, NXN champion (the national champion) has a 2 mile PR of 9:00 and he beat the guy with the fastest 2 mile PR in HS (Haney)...[/quote]
[quote]That guy! wrote:
LV ran 8:29...
LV ran 8:29 the spring after he won his second footlocker title... These are their PR's before Footlocker. Cheserek also ran 8:39 indoors, but that was the winter after his 2nd national title.
USATF wrote:
I was also told that many of the College coaches at the meet for a little bummed that the top guys were all Juniors, because they were not allowed to talk to any of them until after their Junior year.
There were plenty of seniors there. It would be dumb for any coach to be bummed that not everyone was a senior.
I said they were bummed the TOP GUYS were Juniors, which is absolutely true. The coaches I talked to were the Oregon, NAU, and Ok State coaches. It was said non-nonchalantly, just amidst conversation. How is that dumb if it is completely true? They are focusing on Seniors only, since they are not allowed to talk to Juniors. and if most of the top guys are Juniors it would be a little frustrating.
If anyone was actually at FL this year the course was in odd shape. The first loop was dry and dusty with a large portion covered in a sandy material about 2in deep. While the back, upper loop which sits in the shade was soaked with dew each morning leaving it very soft and even muddy in some sections. I think it made for a slow year conditions wise.