Clean wrote:
Lifetime ban for first offense. Pay back all winnings.
Agree. And face prosecution for fraud.
Clean wrote:
Lifetime ban for first offense. Pay back all winnings.
Agree. And face prosecution for fraud.
A Duck wrote:
You don't know this, you just decide this without proof.
Yes, drug use has been a problem.
And also, YES, the IAAF, WADA and the IOC have gotten better and better at catching cheats, saving and testing samples further and further back.
I prefer to support their efforts, rather than smear every single athlete.
If you believe that about the sport, then stop following it and go away.
But, I bet you have a favorite pet athlete or two that you believe is clean. Otherwise what idiot would follow a sport that they believe is completely dirty. Huh?
I am intelligent enough to understand that at the top level of ANY sport the athletes winning are on PEDs.
To put it simply, I live in reality and accept certain truths about high level athletes and elite levels of sporting.
I am not an idiot, and actually find it hilarious coming from you considering who you aggressively defend. I have no pet athletes who I believe are clean.
I mean a double gold medalist testing positive for a masking agent is about as shocking as saying the sky is blue.
I suspect most athletes are either taking banned substances or are taking legal substances which have the same effects on the body as the banned substances.
That being said, I can still appreciate the effort and dedication required to get to a world-class level because even the dirty athletes are out on the track or in the weight room working week in and week out.
Curious Joe wrote:
I suspect most athletes are either taking banned substances or are taking legal substances which have the same effects on the body as the banned substances.
That being said, I can still appreciate the effort and dedication required to get to a world-class level because even the dirty athletes are out on the track or in the weight room working week in and week out.
A reply from someone who lives in reality.
This isn't 1960. You win a medal at the OG and you are using PEDs.
Come on mayne wrote:
TLW wrote:This is reality. I don't like it. Cheating is so rampant in our sport that to win an Olympic medal YOU MUST use PEDs.
That level of the sport is dominated by PED use.
It's the same thing in EVERY sport. Top 10 in Tour de France is the same thing.
Period, end of discussion.
Nope, not the end of the discussion. You're saying all medalists dope because you don't want to be shocked if your favorite athlete is eventually caught doping. It's a cop out.
Not all medalists dope, but we have no way of knowing who does and who doesn't immediately. Therefore some people (you) breakdown and say everyone at the top of the sport dopes, whereas the other reaction is to take a stance of innocent until proven guilty. Which is more reasonable and leaves you not feeling like an angry, jaded running nerd.
Mayne, you got it. Thank you. That is exactly my stance.
Yeah, the system is always playing catch up, but to those paying attention more and more busts have been happening in the past few years, and with the bio passport system.
When an athlete tests positive (or is caught age cheating in Kenya), I say have at it, castigate them all you want.
I am just not for smearing, libeling and defaming athletes that have not tested positive.
Encourage the system to do its job by writing and showing support to WADA and the IAAF.
Innocent unless proven guilty, right on.
Meanwhile, actively support WADA and IAAF.
I've had friends (and past teammates, notice the plural) make Olympic finals while still training under the same coach we were teammates with. They were clean when I was with them. I'd also be willing to bet significant money that, say, Willis is and was clean (I've had good friends train with him, too, and near his peak). Testing might not be stringent enough to completely stop PED use, but it's been good enough to at least minimize the advantage that the users have been getting enough to allow some of the more talented clean athletes to be close to the top.
M.C. Confusing wrote:
THISSSSSSS wrote:Cleaner that Carmelita Jeter. What makes people think Allison Felix may be clean as well? Just because she is nice and has a big smile?hahaha
While I agree with you on Jeter, Felix has been vocally anti-drug use since she first got famous. Hell she VOLUNTEERED to be in the first group of track and field athletes to undergo the Biological Passport in an effort to get Track and Field to look seriously at using the system to track drug offenders.
+1 on Felix.
A Duck wrote:
Mayne, you got it. Thank you. That is exactly my stance.
Yeah, the system is always playing catch up, but to those paying attention more and more busts have been happening in the past few years, and with the bio passport system.
When an athlete tests positive (or is caught age cheating in Kenya), I say have at it, castigate them all you want.
I am just not for smearing, libeling and defaming athletes that have not tested positive.
Encourage the system to do its job by writing and showing support to WADA and the IAAF.
Innocent unless proven guilty, right on.
Meanwhile, actively support WADA and IAAF.
How many Olympic Medalists do you think are on drugs?
How do you feel about TUEs and easily attainable research chemicals?
coach d wrote:
A bit more perspective here about what may be REALLY going on. This was written last fall by an award-winning JAMAICAN Journalist when Dominique Blake and one other Jamaican athlete tested positive:
My understanding is that the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) is here in the island, clearly to satisfy itself that all is well at JADCO, the local drug-testing authority, although it might well be a routine visit.
My sources are convinced that WADA may not be completely happy with everything we are doing. This was an Olympic year, and we admitted to doing minimal drug tests in the months leading up to the national trials. Is that one of the things that could be concerning WADA?
How did the rest of the world interpret that? Is it mere coincidence that the information on the positive findings is coming out now that WADA is here, or is it that the two things are entirely unrelated?
We have seen, in the not-so-distant past, where an entire JADCO board was replaced. I'm not convinced that we have fully understood the reason behind that. Might we see anything similar in the near future?
http://jamaica-gleaner.com/gleaner/20121005/cleisure/cleisure4.htmlDoesn't it strike anyone else as odd that someone as experienced as VCB would end up getting caught taking a diuretic that she certainly knows is a masking agent. I mean, she could have just come down "injured" that week like Bolt and everyone else on the island.
I remember this. And yeah, I agree with you, she's too experienced to not know better. Likely she got used to getting away with it, not being tested, and mis timed things, or was tested when she didn't expect to be, was tipped off, and tried to use the diuretics to hide something else...which hopefully they keep her samples and find later.
TLW wrote:
Come on mayne wrote:Nope, not the end of the discussion. You're saying all medalists dope because you don't want to be shocked if your favorite athlete is eventually caught doping. It's a cop out.
Not all medalists dope, but we have no way of knowing who does and who doesn't immediately. Therefore some people (you) breakdown and say everyone at the top of the sport dopes, whereas the other reaction is to take a stance of innocent until proven guilty. Which is more reasonable and leaves you not feeling like an angry, jaded running nerd.
You don't live in reality or understand how rampant PED use is in high level sports.
YOU DON'T GET TO DEFINE REALITY FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
Your efforts are better spent writing IAAF and WADA and encouraging them to do more.
A Duck wrote:
YOU DON'T GET TO DEFINE REALITY FOR OTHER PEOPLE.
Your efforts are better spent writing IAAF and WADA and encouraging them to do more.
How many Olympic Medalists do you think are on drugs?
How do you feel about TUEs and easily attainable research chemicals?
Of course, at this point you can argue that she has always had a bit of an HGH gut. But unless you take the position that 90%+ of elite sprinters are doping (in which case you will probably claim that the doping bust was obvious and a long time coming), this really was fairly surprising.
A Duck wrote: Your efforts are better spent writing IAAF and WADA and encouraging them to do more.
Pretty much confirms some athletes are absolutely operating in the gray zone. You, we gotta write IAAF and WADA asking to ban the newest and latest, designer, gray-zone, performance enhancing techniques.
Did any of them win Medals? Nope. This is why you must use PEDS these guys are absolutely right. I train with elite athletes/sprinters(top 10 in the world)and none of them are clean. August through December every year is when they dope and then they cycle off and try and maintain those gains with booster supplements like fast test or creatine supplements. I train clean but could only muster a 10.4 this season and guess what? While I sit here and play on the internet at home everyone else is on the diamond league circuit making money
TLW wrote:
A Duck wrote:Only to a cognitively challenged individual like yourself.
I've always been 100% anti doping and for lifetime bans for first time positives and more.
The fact that I am also against anonymous twits on the internet defaming and libeling athletes who have not tested positive is perhaps an intellectual and ethical distinction that you are too immature to grasp.
You are 100% anti doping yet vehemently defend particular athletes or groups. You read that one article about that one doctor in a certain state right?
The fact that I only personally defend one group or athlete; the only one I have personal knowledge of, should give you even more confidence in my knowledge.
Your mentioning "the doctor in another state," only shows me that you are too uneducated to understand the issue.
Go read Steve Magness's blog >
http://www.scienceofrunning.com/2013/04/thyroid-madness-everything-you-need-to.htmlThe "issues" are well understood. TUEs are gray-zone performance enhancers. WADA hasn't caught up with the latest tech.
You've established that I'm an idiot and uneducated.
Educate me on TUEs and whether you think that is cheating.
Educate me on why so many world class runners have fallen prey to thyroid issues and have to fly across the country to go see one particular doctor.
Rojo,
Why'd you delete the threads already existing on this subject, with the same newspaper link you're now posting in your own article, instead of simply adding to them?
Sad. It was furosemide apparently.
Not all medallists are on PEDs (not going to estimate at what proportion).
Diuretics can be used as masking agents, not just to excrete water/certain electrolytes to the person who asked.
Also want to add I support lifetime bans.