wr potential wrote:
Fact: On average there is more variation between two random people than two random people from the same 'race'. It appears that 'race' is merely a phenotype (i.e. appearance - no wonder only bozos who judge books by covers believe in this race shiz). Ethnicity is the whole cultural/social thing and is actually learned only by growing up in a society.
+1
A Dunk wrote:
I don't know what's going on now, but I'd be willing to bet manzano sees two Americans who he routinely beat last year earning nearly 7 figures annually and wants to be paid as much or more..
You don't know shit about sports contracts duck.
Thanks for the +1. Might as well spread some correct information, although I doubt many would accept it!
[Don't get me started on heterozygous advantage! Basically, the advantage of being 'mixed race', i.e. being able to select alleles from a wider gene pool]
Do Wheating and Centro really make as much or more than Webb did when he went pro? If that's true that's kinda crazy considering they don't have nearly the hype or talent of Webb. Maybe girls like Centro which makes him more marketable, i dunno, but still crazy that there are mid-distance guys that are getting more to go pro than Webb did. Or maybe it could be a thing like Webb got Nike to start giving top guys more money by putting American mid-d/distance running back on the map.
I consider Craig Miller, Jack Bolas, Jordan Macnamara, and Jeff See to be his equal at the end of the day and they don;t make more than $20,000/ yr
None of those guys are on Leer's level. Especially with his mustache.
what the wrote:
Do Wheating and Centro really make as much or more than Webb did when he went pro? If that's true that's kinda crazy considering they don't have nearly the hype or talent of Webb.
Centro won NCAAs, then USAs over Lagat, and got a bronze at WC 1500m for the first American medal in the even in 20-30 years or something. All in one outdoor season. That's way more Webb ever did in his whole career. Also son of former American reocrd holder, went to Oregon, all the right connections with NIKE through Oregon and his dad.
Wheating won NCAAs, then went to Europe and ran great there, went 3:30 only like .36 off Webb's best 1500m ever, Oregon, which brings extra connections with NIKE, and it looked like that season was just going to be the tip of the iceberg.
So Centro had already far surpassed Webb, and Wheating had pretty matched him, all while younger and went pro at just right time, whereas Webb went pro based on nothing but a high school time.
iusoijsjkdjsksjdk wrote:
[quote]what the wrote:
Do Wheating and Centro really make as much or more than Webb did when he went pro? If that's true that's kinda crazy considering they don't have nearly the hype or talent of Webb.
Both Centro and Wheating far more talented than Webb by the way. You old timers need to get over your mediocre class of 2001, your Webb, Ritz, and Hall. They're nobodies compared to the class of 2004: Rupp, Manzano, True, etc.
Whoever wrote here that Manzano should be worth MORE because he's Hispanic and can speak to a growing market is spot-on.
But why does Manzano need a shoe company to provide his base salary at all? Why can't he just hit up Red Bull? Or Apple? (You know the Spanish word for Apple, right?) Or someone other company with fat cash?
iusoijsjkdjsksjdk wrote:
Both Centro and Wheating far more talented than Webb by the way. You old timers need to get over your mediocre class of 2001, your Webb, Ritz, and Hall. They're nobodies compared to the class of 2004: Rupp, Manzano, True, etc.
The thing about track is that it's objective - if you want to compare Centro or Wheating with Webb, etc. just compare PR's and you know who is/was more talented.
1500/mile Webb > Centro, Wheating, Manzano
5000 Rupp > Ritz
etc.
I was wondering about Leo's contract the other day and pondering the role race plays.
Let's say Wheating got silver and still didn't have a contract. You all would be talking about it constantly on here.
And do you really think the flag thing really play into the negotiations? Hey, I wasn't a fan of Leo carrying the Mexican flag around on his victory lap, but I'm a huge fan of the guy overall and there is a ton of opportunity with the Mexican American market that doesn't exist with a non Mexican American runner.
The first time I ever interviewed Leo, I walked away super impressed and my opinion hasn't changed. He stood out. Most of the guys don't.
Let's say Leo got TMobile or someone to be his sponsor. Do IAAF rules still technically prohibit non apparel sponsors?
Tmobile could just make some limited edition Leo apparel to get around that.
Hope he signs something soon. Because when careers are on a 4 year cycle, losing 25% of that is a big hit.
Here is the answer. Leo thinks he's worth as much as the other guys. But the other guys aren't worth what they are making. The market is a function of Nike whimsy. There are no objective measures for anyone to prove their worth and Nike's not sharing their Magic 8-ball.
Alysia Montano signed with Asics yesterday, I believe. I'm sure Leo wants to get the best deal he can. Maybe he should put himself up for sale on eBay.
this guy gets it wrote:
wr potential wrote:Fact: On average there is more variation between two random people than two random people from the same 'race'. It appears that 'race' is merely a phenotype (i.e. appearance - no wonder only bozos who judge books by covers believe in this race shiz). Ethnicity is the whole cultural/social thing and is actually learned only by growing up in a society.
+1
+1
Here is our winner. There is no genetic basis for race.
LM wrote:
this guy gets it wrote:+1
+1
Here is our winner. There is no genetic basis for race.
That's amazing, considering you can do genetic testing on people and tell with reasonable certainty where their ancestors come from. Or how they have developed medicines that work better with certain racial groups. Or how different racial groups are more prone to various genetic disorders. Someone should have told them that genetics have nothing to do with race.
Let me chime in here to help you guys out with the Hispanic market and why Leo is not as marketable as you think: the Hispanic market is not much different than the American market when it comes to athletes. The wealth of buying power in the Hispanic (let's get even more dialed-in, the Mexican-American market) market is within 11-17 year olds. Those kids don't care about Track and could care less about Leo Manzano.
When they do care about sports and athletes, it's about one athlete and one sport - football (soccer) and that king is Chicharito of Manchester United/Chivas.
All marketing dollars from all companies targeting the Mexican-American male consumer is set on Chicharito. That's it. We are starting to see the 17-26 year old shift to Canelo Alvarez when it comes to recognition and star power, but it's very difficult to trump Chicharito at this moment, as he has transcended sports in Mexico.
Manzano does not resonate, and remember, most Mexican-Americans would throw their support behind a Diego Estrada over Manzano. Carlos Slim won't be throwing a dime Manzano's way, it's a matter of pride to represent el Tri.
Easy Math wrote:
The thing about track is that it's objective - if you want to compare Centro or Wheating with Webb, etc. just compare PR's and you know who is/was more talented.
1500/mile Webb > Centro, Wheating, Manzano
5000 Rupp > Ritz
etc.
Haha, no. What's objective is championships > PRs. You're considered a major loser if you have awesome PRs and can't qualify to to the championships, or to the finals of the championsips, or do perfomr at the championships themselves.
Rupp > Manzano > Centro/Ritz > Wheating > Webb
somebody had to say the truth wrote:
RuKiddingMe!! wrote:maybe so, but he F'd up...and should a sponsor from Mexico!
Another example of how racist this country is. He shows pride in his culture and you hear this crap. Did the silver medal not go to the US count? Was he not wearing a USA singlet? Did he not have the American flag in his other had? My God some people are sensitive. Get over yourself. A guy should be able to show pride in his culture once in a while without people crucifying for it. Just goes to show the racism that still exists in this country.
I'm sorry...how is this racist? How does it have anything to do with race? He's there to represent the US. Yes his medal counts, yes he's wearing a USA jersey. He's also traveling on a USA budget, getting a USA stipend, etc., so there's nothin racist about expecting him to represent the USA in all aspects of the competition. You wouldn't wear your high school singlet while racing for a college team now would you? The irony here is that you're calling everyone else sensitive, but then cry wolf over your ignorant perception of racism. When you run for a team, you're expected to represent it at every level, from pee wee football to college athletics to the Olympics.
Reality is nobody knows what these runners are worth including the runners themselves as they are at the complete mercy of a handfull of shoe companies due to IOC/IAAF restrictions. There is no open market it is a very closed market. Meb tried to change that and made a little headway yet his primary sponsor dollars still have to come from shoes.
Elite runners get what shoe execs feel like paying or have the budget to pay out. There is no industry science behind these decisions. Take a quick look at these Runnner's World Magazine ad rates and you easily see what an elite runner who garners mag covers or even mid pages is worth in that respect alone. Leo has been on many mag covers as of late.
http://rw.runnersworld.com/mediakit/rw/advertising/2013rates_RWgeneral.pdf
Not sure where these numbers came from but they are off by a lot, at least for Rupp. In 2012, Rupp was near the 900k mark at least plus bonuses. Not sure about anyone besides Centrowitz and Wheating, who's salaries last year were in the range stated.
I know that Barringer makes 1 million from NB, Brenda Martinez is 150k.
The real BS about this whole argument and why I think running is held back from being a mainstream sport is that it's the only professional sport where the general public doesn't have a clue about how much pros (distance runners, etc) make. Yes we all know that Bolt makes millions.
Regardless, it's so secretive and it sucks. Only those with inside info (agents, top athletes) have a clue and can leverage that. The other runners on the cusp of "going pro" have no idea and get screwed. It's sad. I wish someone had balls and would speak up about how much they actually make, help put the sport out there to the mainstream. Maybe someone like Nick Symmonds?
Csls wrote:
the Mexican-American market) market is within 11-17 year olds. Those kids don't care about Track and could care less about Leo Manzano.
Are you trying to say the Average American 11-17 year old cares about track and cares about Andrew Wheating?
Manzano does not resonate, and remember, most Mexican-Americans would throw their support behind a Diego Estrada over Manzano. Carlos Slim won't be throwing a dime Manzano's way, it's a matter of pride to represent el Tri.
People support winners. A silver medalist versus an Olympian at 10,000m is no comparison.