Looks like silly old Percy Cerutty was right after all regarding weights.
Looks like silly old Percy Cerutty was right after all regarding weights.
ventolin^3 wrote:
Coe did loads of weights and his BMI was much lower.Height 1.77, weight 58kg
there is a snowball in hell's chance he was 1.77, unless he was standing on tip-toe - looked more 5'7 ( 1.70m )
Wrong. Coe has always been listed as 1.76 or 1.77m. I have met him and he's certainly taller than 1.70m
Ventolin your notions aren't based on real world 800m training physiology. You continue to use the 1500m as a marker for performance but for many 800m runners the 1500m has little relevance. You cannot use the 1500m as a marker for a runner such as Rudisha or in fact many 800m runners. There are in fact 800m runners who can have 1500m times significantly slower than contempories with the same 400m time yet run the same 800m time.
Apart from that the most basic notion which you have zero proof of is the fact that the addition of a olympic style weight training program would take over half a second off Rudisha's 400m time, despite the fact that he trains 2-3 times per day.
Even the notion of this would have sports physiologists cringe due to the fact that such a weights program requires significant rest to achieve results.
Finally you mention Coes weights training program as the factor responsible for his improvement to 1:41.7 and he was infact doing a weights program as a junior. In that regard it is poor deductive skills to pin point 'weights' as the catalyst for his improvement when he was improving through age, aerobic development, anaerobic development. But of course it must have been weights.
ventolin^3 wrote:
idiot
idiot
drivel
Ventolin, seriously, is there something wrong with you?
I, and I am sure many others, can't take anything you say seriously, regardless of how sound the science may be, because you act like such a childish jerk.
I don't know if this is all tongue-in-cheek, or if you think it's funny, or if this just the way you are, but it's not funny, and it's not entertaining.
Could you consider acting like an adult?
Worth reposting:
"Hi, my username is ventolin^3. I use basic math and physics to arrive at conclusions that have absolutely no value in the real world of running. My universe is an outdated and long discredited positivist one, and I live in constant fear of the truth - that variables I cannot quantify or otherwise account for play an important role in predicting race outcomes. I am also incapable of fathoming the depths to which my credibility sinks when I refer to other posters as 'idiots,' 'morons' and 'imbeciles.' I am ventolin^3. Please love me. I like science."
i don\'t believe 1-38 is possible soon considering how long it\'s taken to drop to 140
Jasari22 wrote:Ventolin your notions aren't based on real world 800m training physiology
idiot
real world 800 physiology offers little
otherwise please explain how nigel a guy with no serious 800 or 1500 background goes from 1'47 to 1'41.7 in just over 1y
obviously your peabrain doesn't realise there is helluva lot more to 800 running than relying on "800 physiology", whatever that is
You continue to use the 1500m as a marker for performance but for many 800m runners the 1500m has little relevance
moron
every 800 guy has to run over-distance
it's only if number is any good woud they bother to actually race it on circuit
we knew nothing about kaki's 1500 & no one expected much with his 800/400 type build but he went 3'31
a 1500 has plenty of relevance to any 800 guy if you knew what to do with it
they may only have a 3'40, but if they improve it by 3 or 4s, that is a mumerical figure which you can apply to potential 800 improvement
You cannot use the 1500m as a marker for a runner such as Rudisha or in fact many 800m runners
idiot
yes you can
if rudy said his 1500tt in training has improved by 2 or 3s & he's still managing same 400s, then you have something to work with for potential 800 improvement
There are in fact 800m runners who can have 1500m times significantly slower than contempories with the same 400m time yet run the same 800m time
idiot
your pebarain not comprehend stated
"rudy has theoretical 3'27, but woud be lucky to break 3'35 currently" ???
Apart from that the most basic notion which you have zero proof of is the fact that the addition of a olympic style weight training program would take over half a second off Rudisha's 400m time, despite the fact that he trains 2-3 times per day
moron
he has plenty of endurance already
how on earth do you expect him to improve his 400 if he so wished ???
it woud be mostly thru weights
Even the notion of this would have sports physiologists cringe due to the fact that such a weights program requires significant rest to achieve results
idiot
i'm not advocating this improvement overnight but thru a whole winter of altered training
it may even take a coupla years to produce results, but's there is a strong chance it will
Finally you mention Coes weights training program as the factor responsible for his improvement to 1:41.7 and he was infact doing a weights program as a junior. In that regard it is poor deductive skills to pin point 'weights' as the catalyst for his improvement when he was improving through age, aerobic development, anaerobic development. But of course it must have been weights.
moron
he only did serious weights when he went to uni ( a sports uni ) & started doing weights with the sprinters
try again idiot
Toronto wrote:
Worth reposting:
"Hi, my username is ventolin^3. I use basic math and physics to arrive at conclusions...
f*ck off moron
I assume the ability to coach an athlete to a 1:39 would be a hugely valuable asset. Where abouts are you credentials? I wonder why decades of coaches haven't learnt your obvious words of wisdom.
I urge you to continue responding because you are an absolute laughing stock. That is being polite.
ventolin^3 wrote:
Jasari22 wrote:Ventolin your notions aren't based on real world 800m training physiologyidiot
real world 800 physiology offers little
otherwise please explain how nigel a guy with no serious 800 or 1500 background goes from 1'47 to 1'41.7 in just over 1y
More likely Amos is well over 20, certainly not 18, and probably on some form of PED. If a European had gone 1:47 to 1:41 in a season, Ventolin, then you'd be accusing them of all sorts of things.
ventolin^3 wrote:
every 800 guy has to run over-distance
it's only if number is any good woud they bother to actually race it on circuit
we knew nothing about kaki's 1500 & no one expected much with his 800/400 type build but he went 3'31
When did people conclude Kaki was a 400/800 type?
He's always been considered an 800/1500 type.
And what has Kaki done over 1500 this year? Not a lot.
Trains with the same coach as Makhloufi, and usually either dns or dnf his races. Very inconsistent and that 3:31 is not a reflection of his overall ability, which is dubious at least.
Most 800 guys cannot go out and run anything below 3:36 on their 800 training. There are few 800/1500 guys around these days.
Truth hurts, eh?
Jasari22 wrote:I assume the ability to coach an athlete to a 1:39 would be a hugely valuable asset
i'm sure it woud be
Where abouts are you credentials?
moron
when did i say anything about being a coach ???
i said a guy like rudy is underweight & increased muscle will give him more power, offsetting the increased bulk he woud carry, to give him shot at 1'39
I wonder why decades of coaches haven't learnt your obvious words of wisdom
idiot
when one of them coaches a 1'39, i'll be 1st to listen to their wisdom
I urge you to continue responding because you are an absolute laughing stock. That is being polite.
you are a f*cking idiot
impress me with some of these
"800 physiologists wisdom about 1'39"
ISBN wrote:More likely Amos is well over 20, certainly not 18, and probably on some form of PED. If a European had gone 1:47 to 1:41 in a season, Ventolin, then you'd be accusing them of all sorts of things
moron
i mentioned nothing about his age
it doesn't matter if he is 18 or 25
the key is he's only run the 800 seriously for 1y & gone from 1'47 to 1'41
as for doping accusations, their is no cocktail of drugs ever invented that will get you from 1'47 to 1'41 in 1y
if there was, you'd have many europeans with far better drug access than a botswanan going from 1'47 to 1'41
When did people conclude Kaki was a 400/800 type?
moron
i said 800/400 build, not 400/800
learn idiot
that means 800 is primary event & 400 woud likely be his next best event
He's always been considered an 800/1500 type
idiot
only an utter moron woud call a 1'43/3'45 guy as he was upto '08 an "800/1500" guy
that 1500 was worthless
And what has Kaki done over 1500 this year? Not a lot
idiot
he's stuck to his main event of 800, but still managed a decent early season 3'34
Trains with the same coach as Makhloufi, and usually either dns or dnf his races. Very inconsistent and that 3:31 is not a reflection of his overall ability, which is dubious at least
idiot
he's run 3'31 & that makes him a 3'31 guy at his peak
it's just as dubious as coe running 1'41.7 & never approaching that ever before or after
Most 800 guys cannot go out and run anything below 3:36 on their 800 training
idiot
then explain how 1'43/3'45 upto '08 made him a 800/1500 guy ???
There are few 800/1500 guys around these days.
kaki has had illnesses/injuries a lot
he was joint-favorite for 800 in '08 but food-poisoning got him & borza & he's had frequent leg-injuries since - again bombing in berlin wc when he was favourite
it's his bad luck
as for "not many" 800/1500 guys, asbel & maloofi are still here & compare well to anyone in the past
there will not be another 800/1500 wr holder again for decades, but there will still be superb 800/1500 guys - even kaki with 1'42/3'31 is a superior doubler on iaaf points compared to ovett - even greg konchellah is & no one mentiones him as recent doubler
^ I was right. Swiss cheese hypothesis.
f*cking idiot
you offer nothing
ISBN wrote:If a European had gone 1:47 to 1:41 in a season, Ventolin, then you'd be accusing them of all sorts of things
clearly you have little clue
caballo who was primarily a 400 guy moved up & shortly after ran 1'43.50wr
it was basically a solo run with 1st 300 in lanes
with pacing to bell, that couda been 1'43.0
with pace judgement difficulties of running "blind" for 300m instead of breaking at 150m as they do in circuit races, he coud claim another 0.2/0.3s
he was therefore a
1'42.7/1'42.8 guy in '76
he was primarily a 400 guy & too bulky for 800 but still worth above
http://www.sports-reference.com/olympics/athletes/ju/alberto-juantorena-1.htmlat 185 he was too bulky for 800 & better weight wouda been 180 thru dieting/weight-training ( & i haven't included more aerobic work )
this wouda likely have slowed his 400, but maybe not, as he mighta had a few pounds of blubber he couda still shed
regardless, i'm not really interested in how it wouda affected his 400, but it's impact on 800
physics tells us that if he'd lost 5 pounds of excess non-useful weight, going from 185 to 180 his previous 1'42.7 - 1'42.8 wouda improved theoretically to
1'41.77 - 1'41.87
caballo, if he'd given up on 400 even in '76, but from '77, if he'd stayed healthy & lost some slight bulk was worth above in a perfect circuit tt
he had negligible over-distance ability, like nigel
to me, this shows that 400 ability is the key to 800, not 1500 & why guys with speed can make big break-thrus
I don't provide speculation and imaginative theory with no grounding.
f*cking moron
you offer nothing
impress me :
what is this "800 physiologists" research to get 1'39 ???
put up or shut up & f*ck off
you waste my time
The village idiot reaffirms his position.
You do not live in the real world.
To bring Juantorena down from a 1:43.5 to 1:41.7 based on speculation, losing weight and fantasy is laughable. You offer no proof or even credible evidence to support your claim.
You seem to think that everyone in the past was capable of 1:41, and that Ryun could run 1:40. ROFL!!!
ventolin^3 wrote:
it's just as dubious as coe running 1'41.7 & never approaching that ever before or after
Oh, like a 1:42.3 at 22 and part time athlete doing his finals at Uni, is SO FAR away from 1:41.7 at 24!
Idiot!