Yogibear wrote:
You forgot the 20k race walk. Which had someone busted in this olympics.
So sad when people try to cheat at something that isn't even a real sport.
Yogibear wrote:
You forgot the 20k race walk. Which had someone busted in this olympics.
So sad when people try to cheat at something that isn't even a real sport.
Nietzsche wrote:
Rojo,
You are missing the bigger picture. this guy says he cannot get into track because of doping suspicions but he knows darned well, baseball, football, basketball, hockey etc are dirty as hell and doesn't care.
The problem is he doesn't see Track as a professional sport but rather some old fashioned Olympic ideal of pure amateurism. The problem with our sport is not the drug suspicions but that it is still marketed and seen as an amateur side show. When reading the messages of many on this board, I sadly realize that alleged fans feel the same way. Take how Bolt is criticized for his celebration. No professional athlete is criticized like that. Until track is thrown at the public as 100% professional, nothing else will matter.
I disagree withs some of those points. Personally, doping in baseball or football doesn't bother me as much as in track and field because those other sports aren't individual and so performance based. By that, I mean they are team sports and more skill-based and doping doesn't necessarily guarantee more success.
Sure, doping can indirectly help your team win if you play better as an individual and help the team, but there isn't a direct correlation between doping and team victory. Where with track and field, it's all about how fast you can run or how high you can jump; it's black and white numbers. So doping automatically guarantees you will be able to do those things better and finish higher up in the results.
When you watch a football game there are a lot of things you watch for and are impressed by. Really well run plays and quarter backs that make perfectly aimed throws for example. You're watching a game, not necessarily looking at how strong or fast any one individual is.
When you watch track and field the whole spectacle (especially for a casual spectator vs a true track person) is "Wow, look how high that guy just jumped" or "look how fast Bolt just ran". If you know those performances are aided by doping it takes away from the amazement.
Also I think the people criticizing Bolt for his celebration are in the minority. Most people acknowledge that his personality is great for the sport. I think those who criticized him did so more because of his comments than his celebrations (ex: “I'm now a living legend. Bask in my glory.” and "I have no respect for [Carl Lewis].")
81runner wrote:
Rojo what do you think of the record holders/stars in the major sports that are dopers? Barry Bonds, Roger Clemons etc
I wish the major sports would take a stand like Track and Field. Erase their records, ban them for 2 years instead of 4 games and lifetime bans for repeat offenders.
I guess you haven't looked at the women's world record any time recently in track and field.
No drug cheats here. All records last 25+ years :-)
Women
Rank Time Athlete Nation Date Location
1. 47.60 Marita Koch East Germany 6 October 1985 Canberra
2. 47.99 Jarmila Kratochvílová Czechoslovakia 10 August 1983 Helsinki
3. 48.25 Marie-José Pérec France 29 July 1996 Atlanta
4. 48.27 Olga Vladykina-Bryzgina Soviet Union 6 October 1985 Canberra
5. 48.59 Taťána Kocembová Czechoslovakia 10 August 1983 Helsinki
6. 48.63 Cathy Freeman Australia 29 July 1996 Atlanta
7. 48.70 Sanya Richards-Ross United States 16 September 2006 Athens
8. 48.83 Valerie Brisco-Hooks United States 6 August 1984 Los Angeles
9. 48.89 Ana Guevara Mexico 27 August 2003 Paris Saint-Denis
10. 49.05 Chandra Cheeseborough United States 6 August 1984 Los Angeles
As I said in an e-mail to , I do have a problem with the thin link to drugs provided by Block. Apparently Blocks sole doping discretion is assisting his wife, not any other athletes and in particular none of the athletes related to his management company (other than his wife).
Given this background, why should we have a strong suspicion that anyone that has any connection to Block is (obviously) doping.
I think that this is a misuse, and an unwise one) of the visible position they have in the sport. It says 'I follow most rumors regardless how little the link unless there is a special case I like (like Bolt).
Furthermore, taking such a position when you are at least a quasi-insider adds to it the notion that there is inside information that he has that leads him to taking this position, and if this is not correct then it is a distortion [and possibly one that verges on actionable in the UK; not here, thank goodness, as the libel laws are a more reasonable here].
This is just one long piece of equivocation. Everyone on the football field or basketball court is just as, if not more doped, than any track athlete.
So if I see a great shot, a great steal, a great block, a great tackle, a great pitch, a great hit, a great save, a great pass, a great catch or anything I see, it's just as much due to doping as a 9.58 or a 40.82 ( a team thing BTW).
If you separate track performances from other sports' performances, you're welcome to but congratulations, you are just as guilty as putting those nails into the sport's coffin as anyone else.
The difference between us is I enjoyed the heck out of these Olympics while people like you sat down and bitched about how dirty they may or may not be. I didn't even care that the Jamaicans kicked out ass, I just loved watching a 36.8.
Now, how do you think the sport will prosper? More people like me, or more people like you?
* wrote:
"For an athlete to be out of the sport and to be saying that is really upsetting." - Usain Bolt
sounds like OMERTA.
Bolt is basically saying Lewis had his glory (using and not paying penalties for it) so he should not get jealous of bolt and the other Jamaicans (presumably using and not paying penalties).
He didn't say Lewis was wrong. Just that Lewis was wrong for not keeping quiet!
Observa wrote:
Dumbest shit ever....You go to work and your boss put the money away for you....PFBS.
Sprintgeezer is trying to bring down the sport...
+1
I do find it ironic how rojo refers to the article written by Bernstein and Cowherds commentary as sloppy, when a quick glance at almost all of the Let's Run pieces will show articles filled with innuendo (especially drug related), grammar mistakes, and poor writing... perhaps he's finally gotten piece of what it felt like to read something like this...
http://www.letsrun.com/2012/block-0701.php
which includes true objective journalism with lines like this... "We don't know but we do know one thing - it's disgraceful he was in the Nike box on Friday and Saturday."
No evidence of any wrong doing. No proof of foul play. Just tabloid running journalism.
To be fair, it gave something Let's Run loves, a scoop. Something they'll mention 4923 times how they broke it and then mention 2352342 times other places that quoted them. In order to break a story, you need to have something to break other than coincidence. A track agent that likes track... eye popping.
Point being, don't call the kettle black when it comes to Cowherd and Bernstein when it comes to their "journalism" if you're basically guilty of the doing the same things.
I digress. Commentary is exactly that and they have the right to write whatever they feel and as much as it pains me to read those awful write ups on bad layouts... I still do, so I guess the jokes on me.
On to drugs. At this point, what would restore your faith in the current state of track and field? What would make you 100% believe that the current athletes are all natural, just working harder and benefiting from better breading?
I would argue with Rojo on his point that taking drugs doesn't have the same impact on a baseball or football player on an individual level. The perfect example being the home run era where those three guys were hitting bombs like Ichiro hit singles. But I would totally agree where he makes the difference, winning a game is different than individual performance and the focus of those sports is more on the team winning than an individuals performance in a specific skill set of that game.
But that's also the same reason why I believe people only like track and field once every 4 years... because its the only time they see people running as a team. They see team USA out there and want someone from the USA to medal every time. I guarantee you most Americans would turn that Olympic 10k off, but they see a guy from the USA up there running great... they keep the channel on, they've got someone to root for, feel proud of, be a part of something special.
Our sport isn't unpopular because of drugs, it's unpopular because there is no one for the lay fan to root for. It's tough to be fans of the individual and no one else. It's the same reason why smaller market basketball teams are in such deep water... more people like Kobe Bryant in Milwaukee then like the Bucks. It's starting to hurt the league.
Drugs, no one really cares except for the mega committed. I would love track to be clean, but at this point, how could anyone look at the amount of people who've been busted and honestly say that the people winning are 100% clean... I don't think you can. So instead of worrying about who's clean and who's not, I just assume everyone is one way or the other, and I can start to regain some entertainment in watching the races... otherwise, you'll just spend all your time arguing over the legitimacy of every performance.
That doesn't mean I condone doping or think they shouldn't do more to stop it, but until you're locking the athletes up in a make shift city where everyone is given the exact same food, coach, clothes, trainers, and medical assistance etc... someone will always find a way to get an edge. That's not a fact of track, that's a fact of life.
rojo wrote:
I guess you haven't looked at the women's world record any time recently in track and field.
+1 as well.
Your first error was to listen to Cowherd to begin with.
super** wrote:
Cowherd's assertions are based on a Shoddy poorly written article. Bolt might or might not be dirty, but, based on current evidence, Bolt has done nothing wrong.
1)Usain Bolt has been a champion since his young days,he is essentially beating the same people he has been beating
2) As a 10 year old he was already running 50 s for 400 meters, so, talent exists, this is not something new from him
3) The assertions that Jamaica has suddenly rose to the top are silly, Jamaica has a long history of sprinting, remember a part from Jamaica's own sprinters, most of the famous British and Canadian sprinters had heavy Jamaican heritage,
4) USA dominance in the 80s, 90s, and earlier this century can be linked to heavy use of PEDs and in deed our 'poor' performance can be linked to more stringent testing regimes.
5) Most importantly, Cowherd is not a track and field guy, you and I and even the worst troll on LR board possibly know more about track and field than he does. I doubt whether Cowherd, he knows whom Gallen Rupp, or Uceny are or even Cam Levins achievement this year? As him of Duane's breakthrough season and he will give you a blank stare. I wont ask him of athletes from East Africa because he wont know anything about them, he should stick to football. If I want track and field news and opinion, I sift through the boards, where I am (a)Entertained and (b)informed for I know who are the trolls and who are serious posters
you are wrong. He does all kinds of road races and I asked him why didn't cover track more and he said my producers won't let me. I would love to show it. He knows Rupp he lived in Oregon for years.
Bolt is dirty as sin. you know it
giddy wrote:
No evidence of any wrong doing. No proof of foul play. Just tabloid running journalism.
Point being, don't call the kettle black when it comes to Cowherd and Bernstein when it comes to their "journalism" if you're basically guilty of the doing the same things.
This is my problem with LRC coming out in defense of Bolt. LRC absolutely ruins its credibility by labeling one of their major advertiser's athlete as a victim of “sloppy journalism" while muckraking accusations against a non-advertiser. It’s almost as if LRC believes that they can guilt Nike into some type of sponsorship; if they do then there is the implied message of unwavering support if not then there will be hell to pay. I understand why LRC would take this stand but if you are playing the game then please spare the message board your sanctimonious outrage.
I'm of the opinion that doping has the same effect, if not greater, on team sports as they do for individual sports. If you can snuggle up to that opinion then I think we can all come to the conclusion that doping accusations and positive drug tests are not going to kill T&F.
What will kill track and field is hypocrisy and cherry picking who you protect and who you vilify for the sake of the almighty dollar.
Pow!
Bolt seems like an obvious juicer - if he is dirty, I hope that is is caught soon. Same goes for the other drugged-up athletes, such as the winners of the 1500m races as well as Carmelita Jeter.
Sprintgeezer wrote:
Whaaat--
Is t&f better because of Bolt? I don't want you to reduce t&f to top-level management compensation.
Do you participate? How has your experience changed as a result of Bolt?
In my personal experience, t&f is not at all better as a result of Bolt.
Geezer...are you trolling me or are you really that clueless?
That's like saying Muhammad Ali had no effect on the sport of Boxing. Have you no idea how many kids are idolizing him at this point? There are few in my own family. And it's not just in America.. think worldwide and use some foresight. Do you even know what will be coming out of Jamaica and the rest of the Caribbean as a result of him? The sport is forever changed and you're just seeing the beginning.
Maybe you should google the Bolt effect and find out why World records are being shattered and times are falling so much. In the rush to try and beat him, people are stepping up their game and competition is hot! Who is the #1 figure coming out of the Olympics, do you think it's Michael Phelps?
The better question is, do you even care at all about the sport?
Rojo should have called in. As the owner of the largest website dedicated to elite track and field coverage on the internet he would have had the credibility to address the issues Cowherd was talking about.
"DOPING SUSPICIONS ARE KILLING THE POPULARITY OF THE SPORT."
I'm genuinely surprised to see you say this. I suppose there is a difference between reporting on -- and vilifying -- known drug cheats and voicing suspicions, but given the huge amount of space devoted on the front page of Letsrun to doping talk, you appear to be contradicting yourself in the extreme. Your comment is rather like Lolo Jones saying that it's poor form for prominent athletes to disclose details about their sexual histories.
If anything, it's the doping itself that affects T&F's reputation, and besides, T&F is never going to be popular in the United States even if a gag order concerning drug talk could be imposed on every media outlet, blogger and Tweeter in existence.
When you say Bolt is a dirty a sin, and you provide no evidence the argument stops there it becomes an issue of what you believe and no one can control that. Back to facts1) Cowherd based his rant on a very flawed and poorly written piece of work that was strong on innuendo and had barely a wisp of truth. If he, Cowherd, loved athletics he could have know the history of sprinting and the Jamaican performance over the years. As I said, Bolt might be dirty, but there is a standard in place, and by the only available scientific standard he is clean. We seem to try to denigrate the performances of other nations without knowing that time moves on, people catch up and stuff like that2) Bolt never came out of nowhere there is evidence of his athletic prowess at 10 years3) In Beijing, and later Berlin Cowherd and gang never accused why now? Bolt is competing against the same people he beat 4 years ago, do we expect different results?
asu guy wrote:
[quote]super** wrote:
and I asked him why didn't cover track more and he said my producers won't let me. I would love to show it. He knows Rupp he lived in Oregon for years.
Bolt is dirty as sin. you know it
Nietzsche wrote:
Rojo,
You are missing the bigger picture. this guy says he cannot get into track because of doping suspicions but he knows darned well, baseball, football, basketball, hockey etc are dirty as hell and doesn't care.
The problem is he doesn't see Track as a professional sport but rather some old fashioned Olympic ideal of pure amateurism. The problem with our sport is not the drug suspicions but that it is still marketed and seen as an amateur side show. When reading the messages of many on this board, I sadly realize that alleged fans feel the same way. Take how Bolt is criticized for his celebration. No professional athlete is criticized like that. Until track is thrown at the public as 100% professional, nothing else will matter.
You had me until the very end. Terrell Owens and Chad Johnson have been criticized much for their similar celebratory antics.