ccrunner609 wrote:
I didnt read all the long posts but your 800 lap time should be determined on your 400 time. All of you are just guessing and not using other distances ran to determine it. In a conditioned/veteran athletes you should go through at 400 time + 4 seconds......as a younger less experienced racer I would go 400 + 6 seconds.
What is your 400 time? That should be end of the thread.
Let me quote myself since most of you arent listening.
its the 800. tactics are more important here than in olympic distance events.
stop running like ryan hall.
grow a pair, forget the watch, and race.
that said, +1-2 seconds positive. if you're near the upper bounds of what you're physically capable of, there shouldn't be any extra gear up your sleeve at the end of an 800. you should already be in it. you dont win a fast 800 by outkicking everybody. you win it when they outfade you. read the science of sport article on why oscar pistorius has an unfair advantage because he can overcome fatigue by having limbs immune to it, or peter coe's 'winning running'. see: speed endurance.
People almost always positive split. It isn't the best way to run the fastest time. Even splits is the smartest and it takes the most confidence because everybody is gaming for position and insecure about being out-kicked.
Generally, things open up in the backstretch. Watch the 1972 olympic final where Wottle wins. Hard to believe when you watch that he is the only one in the race that runs dead even splits. He doesn't kick and actually neither does Wheating in most cases. The others just die down the stretch as they go completely anerobic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LHid-nC45k
The game is trying to avoid getting handed a salad bar in the last 200 meters.
First lap 5 seconds slower thatn current 400 meter ability.
Second lap 4.5% slower than the first. That is ideal.
So if you have 53.6 second 400 speed, - 1st lap 58.6 and second lap in 61.24 = 1:59.84 It never works out exactly that way of course, but it would be ideal. The better your 400 time, the easier the first 600 will be, but the real race is over the last 200 meters.
49.1 + 51.3 = 1:40.4
kw wrote:
Some very interesting answers here.
Nearly every good 800 in the history of the sport was run with positive splits. Telling someone to run whatever is most comfortable for them might be misleading as the 800 properly run is never comfortable in the least.
Take it out and hang on kid.
Good advice!
Wottle has stated many times that he would have run faster on the first lap if he could have. He was just trying to hang on for dear life on the first lap.
Even Stephen wrote:
People almost always positive split. It isn't the best way to run the fastest time. Even splits is the smartest and it takes the most confidence because everybody is gaming for position and insecure about being out-kicked.
Generally, things open up in the backstretch. Watch the 1972 olympic final where Wottle wins. Hard to believe when you watch that he is the only one in the race that runs dead even splits. He doesn't kick and actually neither does Wheating in most cases. The others just die down the stretch as they go completely anerobic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5LHid-nC45kThe game is trying to avoid getting handed a salad bar in the last 200 meters.
It is a amazing that you pick one out of 100 championship races to prove your point.
Check out the 2004 Olympic 800 final. BORZAKOVSKIY'S even and negative splits were deadly! Experiment with other strategies but keep your own style. You will figure out just keep racing.
hellzbellz wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9fwGsCLPbMCheck out the 2004 Olympic 800 final. BORZAKOVSKIY'S even and negative splits were deadly! Experiment with other strategies but keep your own style. You will figure out just keep racing.
Check out the 2004 Olympic 800 final TOO I mean, additional to the video I posted.
Confused Runner,
listen to me,
High School stats
Soph = 1:58
Junior = 1:51.7
Senior = 1:51.1
College = 1:48 before moving up to 1500
Nearly every PR I ever set in the 800 was with a POSITIVE split. Nearly every runner who ever beat me, also did so with a POSITIVE split.
I've even done a Dave Wottle-esque "Worst-to-First" with POSITIVE splits, not negative,not even, but Positive.
You want to POSITIVE split.
Go out in 58 seconds your next 800. Don't worry about your 200 splits, why are you concerned with those anyway? 58 for your 400, continue pushing, and in the final 150 hold on for dear life.
My guess is, you'll go 58 for opening 400, come back with a 60 and depending on the .tenths. part, you'll run a 1:58 or a 1:59, either way, you'll have a shiny new PR to show for it.
Your Welcome.
~Ghost
Go out in 60-61, stay on the back of the pack for the 3rd 200, last 200 close hard (assuming youre a 400-800 type runner) If youre a 800-1500 type runner, go out 57-58 and hard on, dig deep the last 100-200 meters and you will have a pr. It depends on what type of runner you are. 400-800 type will race different then the 800-1500 type. Youre welcome. Ive only run 1:54, but it will worth. Listen to your body and trust your training.
Ghost 2
800 is not about splits its about effort. The advice I give to an 800 runner is this: run the first lap as fast as possible while using the least amount of energy, sit tight on the turn, rev up on the straight away and hammer the last 200.
Let me add this tidbit, and see if anyone else agrees. I remember that it took me about 3 or 4 races to break 2:00 flat. Once, I did, I never went back. Yes, of course the bad conditions race, but generally speaking if the conditions were right I had no problem breaking 2:00. It seemed so hard to break and once you do, it seems so easy to always break 2:00. I know it seems strange, but curious to know if anyone else experienced that as well?
So, good luck and if I had to say, I would take the advice of John McDonnell and run hard as long as you can. If you are strong now for 600 meters of the race as you mature, that will turn into 650 meters, which will turn into 700 meters, and so forth. Good luck to you and just one other thing, this happens as well when you get to 1:50 as well.
Pro-tip: Just because you read letrsun doesn't mean you have PHD in metabolic energy systems.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9fwGsCLPbMGhost wrote:
Confused Runner,
listen to me,
High School stats
Soph = 1:58
Junior = 1:51.7
Senior = 1:51.1
College = 1:48 before moving up to 1500
Nearly every PR I ever set in the 800 was with a POSITIVE split. Nearly every runner who ever beat me, also did so with a POSITIVE split.
I've even done a Dave Wottle-esque "Worst-to-First" with POSITIVE splits, not negative,not even, but Positive.
You want to POSITIVE split.
Go out in 58 seconds your next 800. Don't worry about your 200 splits, why are you concerned with those anyway? 58 for your 400, continue pushing, and in the final 150 hold on for dear life.
My guess is, you'll go 58 for opening 400, come back with a 60 and depending on the .tenths. part, you'll run a 1:58 or a 1:59, either way, you'll have a shiny new PR to show for it.
Your Welcome.
~Ghost
A 1:42 pr and an Olympic champion in this video. A positive split is not the only way.
2008 Olympic trials 800m.
enough said. negative split
Positive splits are way better, but I think you have to factor in your strengths. My best race in college was 53.7/57.1. But I think it varies a bit by absolute time and your skill set. The first time I broke 2 I think I ran around 58.5/60. But I would consider myself much more speed based than strength based. Given that you can even split a 2-flat, I'd say get out in 57 and see what you can do. But if your quarter PR is 55 but you're a strong cross runner, than might not be the way to go. If your quarter PR is below 54, then get out there in no slower than 58 and you're going to break 2.
There is no question that you will positive split teh race to run your best times. I have never seen a successful 800 runner have even splits let alon negative. that being said the general rule when running like this is if you go out fast your second lap will be about 4 seconds slower than the first.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w9fwGsCLPbMblitzace012 wrote:
There is no question that you will positive split teh race to run your best times. I have never seen a successful 800 runner have even splits let alon negative. that being said the general rule when running like this is if you go out fast your second lap will be about 4 seconds slower than the first.
Here is a successful 1:42 pr and the 2004 Olympic champion in this video. A positive split is not the only way.
Looked like he split 50.5, 52.0. Still positive.