800m: Positive or negative splitting?

doing positive splits by going out fast on the first lap (like around 56-57, but based on how u did 2 flat off even splits u might be able to do it with a 58 and hanging on, you sound strong enuf to do it).

generally even splits, while are very effective and can be used for prs, are more often then not used in championship race settings (look up the olympic trials 800m, and really most any race wheating has run) because they allow u to kick quickly and slow down the least. positive splits are used to get fast times (rudisha, seb coe, kipketer).

if u wanna break two, dig in and go balls out the first lap an hang on the second, itll probably end up being more than just a 1:58 or a 1:59 based on the strenght u seem to have. another good way is to get in as fast a race as possible and get towed along to a fast time.

If you want to run to your potential in 800m, the way to do it is by dropping around a 1 to 1.5 second positive split. The reason I say this is because your body doesn't fully switch over to aerobic stage until 600m and by then you only have 200m left and you start kicking in all you got. If you try dropping negative splits or even splits, your not really taking full advantage of your anaerobic. With a race like the 800m, its to short for you to have to pay the price of having to deal with being overly tired from going out a little fast like the way you would if you ran that way in the mile.

For example. You could run 29.5+30+30+30=1:59.5 or you could run 28.5+29.5+31+30=1:59.

Sorry, when I posted 1 to 1.5 second positive splits, I meant going out fast and then running your second half about 1 to 1.5 seconds slower then your goal pace.

I had run between 2:00 and 2:01 at least four times before breaking 2, always with a first lap around 59.x. Then once I went through in 61, kicked hard and finally broke 2. Take that FWIW.

This guy doesn't know what he's talking about. Your body starts aerobic, then switches to anaerobic when, because of the intensity, the aerobic system can't catch up. By 600m, you are primarily using your anaerobic system, thus you are experiencing lactic acid (the by-product of anaerobic respiration). New research suggests that it is the hydrogen ions produced during anaerobic respiration that actually screws up the nerves in the muscles and causes you to slow down.To answer the question, in theory, even splits are the best. This is very difficult for inexperienced runners to do, but big positive splits are not the best way to do it.

laxmack117 wrote:

If you want to run to your potential in 800m, the way to do it is by dropping around a 1 to 1.5 second positive split. The reason I say this is because your body doesn't fully switch over to aerobic stage until 600m and by then you only have 200m left and you start kicking in all you got. If you try dropping negative splits or even splits, your not really taking full advantage of your anaerobic. With a race like the 800m, its to short for you to have to pay the price of having to deal with being overly tired from going out a little fast like the way you would if you ran that way in the mile.

For example. You could run 29.5+30+30+30=1:59.5 or you could run 28.5+29.5+31+30=1:59.

Confused 800 runner wrote:

As someone who is really close to breaking 2 (like 2:00.5) I've looked into different racing strategies. I feel that physically, I am capable of breaking 2 minutes right now, and my general strategy is even splitting (30x4 last race) with a strong kick to the finish. However, it seems that many professional 800m runners tend to positive split whereas for most of my races I tend to even/negative. I know it sounds foolish for me to compare my racing to that of a professional, but if I wanted to get the fastest time possible, what's the most effective strategy to employ?

Positive splits, with the first lap about 2-3 seconds faster than the second. If you want to run 1:59, try going out in 58.

The big difference for You Vs. "The Pros" is that you run the 800 more than 15 seconds more slowly than they do. The longer a runner takes to run the 800, the less advantageous positive splits become. If a 90 year old masters runner were here, trying to breat 4:00, I'd advise him or her to run the first 400 in 2:00.

I ran 56-56 (1:52.0) as a junior in HS and 1:59.9 (60-60) as a soph. If you have the discipline even splits are the way to go. I was in last place at 400 (leader @ 54) only to come back and win. Relay legs are the tuoghest to run even splits, 'cause you got all the extra adrenalin. I did run even splits for am 1200 distance medley relay split of 2:57 (59-59-59) as junior.

this is true. because after 90 seconds your body starts relying on the aerobic system to fuel you to the finish line. so for a 2 min guy thats at 600m, for an elite guy thats 100m. thats why u hear elites say how important the last 100m is of their 800.

and to answer your question. positive split. first lap should be no faster than 5 seconds of your second lap. however one of my fastest 800s had a difference of 7 seconds 52/59. but for the most part i've run my best going out in around 53/54 and coming back with a 55/56

Go with the negative splits if u see the trend of 800m WRs.

Look at the 800m section in this Science of sport article:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/09/mens-800m-analysis-of-event-and-preview.html

Wait, go with negative splitting? According to this, I should positive. I sorta agree with this article; I had a race several weeks ago where I was boxed, first lap was 63 and second lap was 60. I may just try the negative split approach to my next meet then if I plan on PR'ing.

rudishaaaaa wrote:

Go with the negative splits if u see the trend of 800m WRs.

Look at the 800m section in this Science of sport article:

http://www.sportsscientists.com/2007/09/mens-800m-analysis-of-event-and-preview.html

If you read the article properly, it says to split positively, not neg.

What part of "it’s not possible to run optimal times with a faster second lap" do you not understand?

Any real coach or real book on middle distance (Coe/Martin for instance) will tell you the fastest 800m times come from slight positive splits (usually difference of about 2-5 secs). However fast you run with negative splits, you will run faster if you run the first lap a little faster.

See Coe/Martin p. 328. And it is Coach432 that doesn't know what he's talking about. You simply won't see a high level 800 run with negative splits and that's what the Science Of Sport article is trying to tell you.

You do NOT speed up at the end of an 800. You can only hope to slow down less, unless you went out way too slow.

Fastest 800s in High School were all small positive splits. Hit 1:57 going 57-60.

In college, spent a lot more time running (went from 30mpw to 90+) and ran my best 800s in even splits, 57-57. The only time I tried to positive split, I went 55-65, and my last 200 was 37 seconds. Complete lock up.

If you are aerobically strong, go even splits, or be patient and run a slight negative split. Just work on timing your passes- nothing kills a kick like having to swing wide to avoid traffic with 120 to go.

drivel wrote:

Fastest 800s in High School were all small positive splits. Hit 1:57 going 57-60.

In college, spent a lot more time running (went from 30mpw to 90+) and ran my best 800s in even splits, 57-57. The only time I tried to positive split, I went 55-65, and my last 200 was 37 seconds. Complete lock up.

If you are aerobically strong, go even splits, or be patient and run a slight negative split. Just work on timing your passes- nothing kills a kick like having to swing wide to avoid traffic with 120 to go.

I'm definitely more anaerobically strong than I am aerobically. In fact, I was afraid of running wide when I should have (I could have gone lane 2 but I overestimated the length and time it would add during one of my races). So I guess even splitting, but most likely positive splitting is the way to go.

Small positive splits optimal no matter how aerobically strong you are (assuming of course you are running around 2:00 or under). Positive splits are hard for some runners to do and aren't able to hold it together, but often (as long as they didn't go out way too aggressively) its more of a mental thing. The key is to push from 400m-600m with almost everything you have. I've always run my best races even splitting until 600m and then slowing down a bit. Here is a little chronology of my PBs throughout highschool and university and the splits (more for my own personal enjoyment, but hey, we all do it!)

grade 9: 57+66= 2:03 (I think I ran a 2:09 this year going 56-73)

grade 10: 58+63= 2:01

grade 11: 58:61= 1:59

grade 12..ran 1:58.45 two very different ways...54+64 and 60+58

university first year= 56+59=1:55

second year = 55+59=1:54

third year = 55+58=1:53

senior year didn't run due to finally moving up for good.

I really didn't improve a lot from my 14 year old self to the end of my career (at least in the 800) now that I look back!

The chronology helped, thanks for that. Interestingly enough, I started Track as a Sophomore with a 2:22 800, and I've already dropped off 22 seconds, (hopefully) soon to be more. But 10 seconds for one to drop off is quite a lot in an 800, especially when you started out quite fast (2:03 as a Freshman is definitely a good time). Physically I feel as if I'm able to go 1:57 this year. I'm not trying to get ahead of myself, but my coach has just started me on 800M speedwork last week because I was injured during XC and winter, so I was rather late to start. At least I know there's a lot of room for improvement.

If the goal is to run as fast as possible in a time trial type of effort, the best races statistically are run with each 200 about 3% slower than the 200 before it.

For a 2:00 race, running exactly 3% slower for each successive 200 would work out to splits of 28.68, 29.54 (58.22 at 400), 30.43 and 31.35 (61.78 second lap). So it's nearly 0.9 slower for each 200 at that level of racing. Obviously it's astronomically unlikely to run precisely 3% slower on each 200 (to the 1/100 of a second), and even if you could, you normally have to contend with wind or avoiding other runners. Furthermore, if you run these kinds of splits against competition of your same basic level, you're also guaranteed to pass a lot of people in the last 100 (most people slow down by 2 seconds or more in the last 200), so some running wide or weaving through the crowd might be in store for you. But a 3% slowdown for each 200 (or reasonably close to that, depending on weather and pack dynamics) is a pretty good estimate of ideal 800 pacing for most runners.

FWIW, if the current world record was run with a 3% slowdown on each 200, the splits would be 24.14, 24.87 (49.01), 25.62 (1:14.63) and 26.38 (1:41.01).

To sum up, if sub-2:00 is the goal, I'd shoot for a low 28 and barely under 58 and see what happens. If it's a bunched-up field, you usually only have one "move" in an 800. Don't waste it early. If it's a strung-out, time trial sort of race, you ideally have no moves - the whole thing is just a barely-controlled near-sprint that has a very gradual natural slowdown after the opening 200.

My best 800 in high school was split 65 61 before i got a stress fracture. what do you think i could've gone out in?

Next time I run an 800 it will be only 5 people MAX and I have the fastest time in the race by like 5-6 seconds since I know who's running it and their times. So running wide, getting boxed, shouldn't be too much of a factor, nor will running wide. I'll probably have to lead the whole race from start to finish.