1997 WORLD CHAMP - DANIEL KOMEN!!!

bernie mentioned in an interview that when he ran his then 3k pb around the millenium, that he absolutely hated the distance & he had no interest in pursuing it at the time

in theory, he probably had even better speed decay then hicham ( 3'26 & likely slower 800 ) & expected faster 3k time, but if you don't like over-distance, all the theory in the world is of no use

this is not in-depth article i recall, but the summary is the same :http://www.universalsports.com/news/article/newsid=493936.html

When I was running the 1500m a lot, the 3000m was a race that scared me because it was painful and I didn't train for it. But now, I will be training well, knowing that this is my event. It's no longer the 1500m. It's no longer the mile. This is a new challenge. It's exciting

these boys are just fortunate that Mr Coe never moved up in distance.

Does anyone have splits from Komen's World record (each k), El'G's, Morceli and Gebre's attempt.

Thanks

Komen's 3k record can be seen here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4vg3-aOGfs

Amazing stuff. 2:25 opening km. I find it interesting Ventolin said El G committed suicide by running a 2:25 middle k and yet Komen ran 2:25 for the first k. He was 4:53 @ 2k and finished in 7:20.

As Malmo keeps saying, Komen is the only guy to have ran 3:29 + 12:39... that's crazy... end of. There is a reason no one has come within 20 metres of him over 3000m.

Still, when El G was in 4:44 2k shape, I'd have loved for him to make a few serious attempts at 7:20 as I would think that a 4:53 2000 en route would not have hurt him so much. Just the same, I never get tired of watching Komen's race. Obviously both were simply remarkable athletes.

I tend to agree with Malmo on this one. Komen had the right combination of 1500 speed and 5 k endurance. I think that if EL G felt he could get it, then he would have had many more attempts at it. After all, most of his races were set up paced affairs.

I'm surprised that no one has even questioned yet, whether these runs were all legitimate! Am I the only person who thinks all these 7:20's, 4:44's, sub 12:40's etc were done while using EPO? There was no test while these unbelievable times were being run, not until late 2000. And even after that the test was unreliable at best.

Since 2005, when I believe they changed the EPO test, only 1 person (Bekele- 7:25.79) has broken 7:28 for 3k, no one has broken 3:29, and only Bekele has broken 12:48 for 5000m. He ran a 12:40 in '05 at the age of 23, which is very young for a distance runner, and hasn't been within 8 seconds of that since. And at 2000m no one has run within 6 seconds of EL G's best .

So we have 6 full seasons where no one has run close to the WR for any of those distances. Oh to be a great middle distance runner in the late 90's.

Kipkomen wrote:

Does anyone have splits from Komen's World record (each k), El'G's, Morceli and Gebre's attempt.

Thanks

Here are Komen's splits.

400 57.5

800 1:56.

1000 2:25.89 (59.26)

1400 3:23.55 (57.66)

1800 4:23.46 (59.91)

2000 4:53.18 (29.72)

2200 5:21.83 (58.37 - 29.72/28.65)

2600 6:21.58 (59.75)

3000 7:20.67 (59.09)

Splits of his WR 2 mile (He ran 7:58.9 6 months later)

58.9

62.2 (2:01.1)

58.8 (2:59.9)

59.9 (3:59.8)

60.1 (4:59.9)

58.9 (5:58.8)

61.1 (6:59.9)

58.7 (7:58.6)

3:59.8/3:58.8

Danny Komen wrote:I find it interesting Ventolin said El G committed suicide by running a 2:25 middle k and yet Komen ran 2:25 for the first k. He was 4:53 @ 2k and finished in 7:20

hicham's splits from t&f news :

29.9

29.9

29.5

28.9

29.8 - 2'28.0

29.1

29.3

28.6

29.1 (pacer gone after this one)

29.6 - 2'25.7 !!! ( this km killed him ) - 4'53.7 total

30.4

30.4

30.0

29.4

29.1 - 2'29.3 - total 7'23.0

the pacer in this race was all over the place & i remember hicham almost shooing him on after the ist km, when the guy sped off, shot his wad & dropped out 200m before his contracted 2k point

hicham looked decidely uncomfortable at this point & it was decidely obvious he wasn't happy with how the race had panned out & he slowed a lot over the next 600m before putting in a belated, soft kick

his "equilibrium" had been severely jolted by the 2k point & i remember watching at the time that this just didn't look like it was going to be his day - remember, he liked all his races to start off fast, slow a tad towards the end & then he woud put in a huge finish - he didn't look happy with this slow/fast scenario & he looked like he wanted to shoot that wabbit

Then why do they run the marathon so much faster now than in the 90s?

What ever happened to Komen? He set that 3000m record at the age of 20. He should have had a longer career, but just disappeared?

It's because one guy, named Hicham El Guerrouj, retired. Breaking 3:29 is really hard, to the point that there have only been 20 races in which anybody broke 3:29, and El Guerrouj was in 15 of those 20 (winning all but one). He dragged most of those other sub3:29s behind him.

What was Bekele doing in 2006? He was dialed into the Golden League trying to win a share of half a million dollars, running 12:58 in Oslo (for second) on June 2, 12:51 in Paris on July 8, 12:51 in Rome six days later, 12:48 in Zurich on August 18 (with Isaac Songook breathing down his neck), then another 12:48 a week later in Brussels, then a 12:57 to win the next week in Berlin, then a sit and kick win over 5000m a week later at the WAF, then by the time he got to the World Cup, he had nothing to fight off Mottram in the 3000m.

You've got to keep in mind: only three men have ever broken 12:40. It's extremely difficult and in addition to being among the most talented distance runners to have ever walked the earth, you also need to be in excellent shape. You also need to have excellent pacemaking, which is tough to come by, because if you're good enough to pace a world record attempt in the 5000m or 10000m, you're good enough to be in the race and possibly challenge. That day Bekele ran 12:40 in Paris, he went through 3000m in 7:32. If he had been just a bit slower, he probably wouldn't have fallen off as he did.

Bekele's still injured (as of earlier this month) and I doubt we'll ever see him again in the kind of world record (track) form we saw him in from 2004-2006. This new kid, Almirew, may be the next big thing. But again, good luck finding the right pacemakers for a world record attempt. You can get a lot of guys to through 1600m in 4:02 on pretty even splits, but try finding (and paying) a guy who can lead the next four laps and hit 7:34.0 for 3000m.

No one races over 2000m so who cares.

2:28.3x from 3k-4k......EEK!

What if Komen didn't try for a 4th time in 1996 on that curiously fast track in Rieti?

Or what if El G took a good shot on that track.

The current world records in the 800, 1000 and 3000 were done in Rieti.

Morceli had set his fist 1500 WR and his mile WR in Rieti.

Asafa Powell set the 100 WR in Rieti.

El G ran one of his 3:26's in Rieti (my god he ran 3:26 FIVE times).

If

DK is what happens when you don't think, just run.

ventolin^3 wrote:

for komenesque :

blah blah blah

Still assuming everyone slows at the same constant rate there, buddy? Good luck with that.

I'm still struggling to see your point. They both went through 2k in 4:53, Komen ran his opening k in 2:25, El G ran his 2nd K at the same speed. The only difference I see is that when left alone Komen carried on churning out 29 second 200's where's El G faded slightly. He may have been having a bad day, we'll never know.

The guy ran under 8 minutes for 2 miles twice for God sake. I know El G never really tried it but Geb sure as hell did and he was still 20 metres back each time.

Double Platinum wrote:

I'm not asserting that El G could have run 7:20, but IF WE ASSUME THAT IS TRUE, why is Lagat not a part of this conversation?

Essentially the same 1500m PR as El G, and a 5000m PR almost the same at a vastly older age...I think Lagat was the better candidate.

Do you not see the problem with your logic here?

El G was in 3:26 and 12:50 shape much closer to the same time (1998, 2003), while Lagat (as you yourself say) set his PR "at a vastly older age" ... his 1500 PR was in 2001, and his 5000 PR of course 2010.

The question isn't who can be in incredible 1500 and 5000 shape a decade apart, is it? Hicham was way closer to overlapping these than Lagat. (Still had no chance at 7:20.)

Danny Komen wrote:I'm still struggling to see your point. They both went through 2k in 4:53, Komen ran his opening k in 2:25, El G ran his 2nd K at the same speed. The only difference I see is that when left alone Komen carried on churning out 29 second 200's where's El G faded slightly. He may have been having a bad day, we'll never know

you clearly didn't see the race

hicham's "rhythm" after numerous races was to go fast from the gun, slow a little towards the end & then push real hard - that's how he liked his races

he did not like starting off slow & then in effect having to run a fast last 2k - his frustration with the pacer that day was not just palpable, it was observable

from numerous races of his, it's clear he wanted a 4'54 or 4'55 split at worst & then come back in 2'26 or 2'25 & he liked fast start, so 2'27/2'27 or 2'27/2'28 at worst were preferred method

watching the race, the actual 2'28/2'25 upset him visibly & like i said, if you had seen the race, you wouda known immediately at 2k that his mindset had been severely affected & there was little chance of the wr