Coe Ovett Cram videos

eh ?

distance between athletes is the key

your other nebulous factors have very little effect

i have personal experience of running on dirt & synthetic countless times in my youth - both quality tracks

you offer no such

i offered centripetal force calculations based on JRM's work - a professor of rocket science

what are you offering in refutation ??

waffling drivel

if you have a strong-counter example, offer it

eh ?

you are writing long words & claiming you know something about them

clearly you don't

with revision of energy expenditure method, that slows that by 1s, so that makes it 3'25/3'26

offer detailed refutation if you can otherwise stop talking nonsense

idiot

one was run on synthetic with small variation in laps ( comparatively ) in temperate weather, the other on dirt, with huge variation between initial 300 & last 1200 & 95F

only a moron woud mention the 2 races in same sentence

you clearly don't remember that year with an adult perspective

cruz ran so hard that meet, that it was a shock he ran anything more than a token zurich meet after

the energy expended during olympics shoud have finished his season there & then

to run those times afterwards on what must have been fumes was incredible

if he hadn't run the olympics & just targetted circuit races fresh, he wouda certainly buried the wr

but as a kid at the time, you woudn't understand this

your usual nonsense

you clearly have no clue when you see a guy's

"once in a lifetime" effort

anyone who saw that race, knew there was no chance he'd run faster than that that year or maybe ever, but you you were about 7y ole then, so no clue

i told you after kaki's 1'42.2 in june last year there was no chance he woud run faster than that that year

that's what experience tells you

drivel

the cruz of '84 if he'd run just circuit meets without those horrendously sapping olympics wouda run a helluva lot faster than 1'41.77

he ran 47.17pb in '80 aged 16 or 17y

coe's 46.85pb was set aged 23y

what do you think cruz's 400 ability was in '84 ??

a relay

clueless as usual

he ran his 2'14 two days before the biggest circuit meet of the year in zurich where he ran then 1'42.34pb

if you seriously believe zurich was going to pay him big under-the-table money to turn up wasted to their meet, then you are an idiot

that 2'14 was nothing more than a leg-stretching exercise

he didn't even split inside 1'46 for it, so for a 1'41 guy, he jogged the 800 & did nothing more in last 200

nonsense

kip has almost identical 400 to coe & much inferior 1500 & ended up running 0.6s faster over 800

ventolin^3 wrote:

ukathleticscoach wrote:

'he didn't with that run & retrospectively it looked worse when ovett went 3'31.36 a coupla weeks later'

Yeah, it was a shocking run winning like that

if you found that run overly-impressive, it shows you have absolutely no clue whatsoever

Where did I say it was over-impressive? It's was still a very good run

There is more to running than times, never having run yourself you might not realise this

So that is Rudisha going to run for the 1,000m (I see from the other thread you are virtually on first name terms with his coach) and was was Ryun a bottler?

ukathleticscoach wrote:There is more to running than times, never having run yourself you might not realise this

really moron ???

i'm sure you ran 1'40 & that makes you look like isaac newton now

or did you run 1'55 which makes your opinion look nothing but nonsense ??

you a mind-reader to know what i ran ??

f***ing idiot

So that is Rudisha going to run for the 1,000m (I see from the other thread you are virtually on first name terms with his coach)

no

idiot

i follow the boards & the owner of that board mentioned there that jlt was templeton, rudy's manager

and was was Ryun a bottler?

what is that supposed to mean you imbecile ??

a guy who runs 800/1500/mile wrs a bottler ??

f*** off pissant you offer nothing

Oh God! You're off on one again. I wondered how long you could maintain some sort of civility on here!?

Basically if someone agrees with you, you're happy to chat. If they question anything you say, then you issue them with a tirade of expletives and swearing! Have I got that right?

You must live a pretty lonely life with that sort of mentality.

I wasn't questioning your intellect or the validity of what you type on here. I was simply trying to make others, who some how think we have a lot in common!??, that I don't necessarily advocate what you believe. In other words, I have my own take on things. As usual you take it all personally and out of context.

Of course drafting has some effect, but it's pretty much impossible to quantify it precisely in a race, as the distance between rabbit and runner is constantly changing and cannot be measured accurately. You can give an estimate, but that's all it is.

As for indoor and banked tracks, I'd prefer to use common sense and listen to all those (who've actually run on modern mondo banked indoor tracks) who argued against what you've said about them, on another thread this week.

Take a chill pill!

Wait. Perhaps he did run 1:40, if we use the Deano-Ventolin True Time (tm) conversion.

I've already proved that my 1:58.4 was intrinsically superior to Rudisha's standing WR using the DVTT method. So if he ran anything better than 1:58 in execrable conditions, running in lane 4 on a caldera-crusted track in a hurricane, then clearly he also knows what it's like to operate in the zone.

a guy who runs 800/1500/mile wrs a bottler ??

You are not helping your case. A bottler is someone who has the ability but bottles it when it matters most.

You also missed my point about running as well, it's not how fast you ran - you didn't run at all!

I notice you dodged the question on his 1,000m time prediction. Come on get your abacus out

Lol! That's rich coming from someone whose supposedly a doctor, and who acts like a kid every time someone disagrees with him.

I remember the races well enough thanks and watched them just the other night in fact. The idea that an athlete is exhausted 2 weeks after a Championship and unable to run at their best is laughable. There have been dozens of athletes who've set Wrs or run their best after an Olympics or Worlds. Off the top of my head we have Kazankina's 3:52 after Moscow, Ovett's 1500 WR after Moscow, Coe's 3:29 after 6 races in the 86 Europeans, Kipketer's 4 sub 1:43's after 97 Worlds, Ashford's 100m WR after LA, .....etc, etc.

Experience of what? Being an arrogant hypocritical curmudgeon?

There are plenty of people with enough common sense to know he wasn't going to be at a peak in any season, the first week of June. Compare with what Cruz in 84 or Kipketer in 97 were running at that time. What were they running?

Coe said in a magazine interview in early August 81:- "Although the season started really well with that 800m and 1000m world record, the real peak of the summer will come in late August and early September, with the Europa Cup final, and then the World Cup in Rome (Sep 4-6), plus big international meetings in Zurich, and Brussels"

I'll take his own view of his season and running over yours, thanks.

The reason why Kaki didn't run faster last year is because he never ran against Rudisha again. Their Oslo clash had been planned for several months, and in a non championship year Kaki would have wanted to be in reasonable shape for that race. The fact he was practically drafted for 750m of the race by Rudisha, is the reason he ran about a second faster than what he'd have run in a "normal" circuit race at that time of the year, where he'd be following a rabbit to the bell.

Kaki also had injury problems last year, yet still managed to run several 1:43's. Had they clashed again in late August and he'd been able to tuck in behind Rudisha again, then he'd have run even quicker.

"horrendously sapping"!? LOL!

Rubbish. He never finished the double and was resting for a week before starting training again for Europe. What about Gray & Koskei? They seemed ok to run very fast pbs too, post LA. The fact is that the 3 of them were in the form of their lives, and were able to spur each other on a couple of weeks later in well paced races.

The Olympics is the pinnacle of an athlete's career. They train (injury and illness permitting) to be at their peak for them. If it wasn't for getting to a peak in LA, then Cruz would probably have been slower in random, meaningless circuit race at the end of the season. Very much a case of 'making hay while the sun is shining.'

And likewise, had Coe "just run circuit meets" at 800m (rather than trying to break the 1500 & Mile records) throughout the summer of 81, he'd likely have run a lot faster too.

Is Cruz's 1980 pb all you have? I thought you knew everything and had seen every race ever run!?

Cruz ran a 46.9 relay leg in the the early summer of 84 in Eugene. Coe also ran a 46.9 at the same time of year in 81, but in an individual race at Crystal Palace.

I'd say Cruz would have been in high 45/early 46 form in 84. But as I said before, there is no evidence whatsoever that Cruz's 400 leg speed was any faster than Coe's

A relay race which you clearly never saw. He took the baton 2m in front of the US athlete, before stumbling and falling at least 4m behind the US guy by the start line; at which point he was stationary. He then stayed 4m behind the leader until the crown of the last bend, where he moved out wide and passed him 50m from the end. At which point the US runner dropped the baton and Coe eased up 10m from the line. It was "easily" the equivalent of a sub 46 flat run. If you didn't see it (and I have it on DVD) you can't really pass much comment on it, especially considering how you're always belittling others on here, in view of fact that you've seen "all the race" in Europe since the beginning of time. Obviously you feel superior to others for having seen so many races and that's your main criteria for passing comment on them.

What sort of world do you live in? After LA, Zurich would have paid him to do the Triple Jump! He would have carefully chosen races that would get him what he was looking for; namely the 800 WR.

He knew it would be difficult and thought he'd have a go at the 1000m first, publicly announcing that it was a WR attempt before.

I've got that race as well, and his first 3 x 200m splits went 25.1, 51.0 & 1:19.1, with at least 2 pace makers. That's not "jogging", as you claimed. Looked like he was pretty serious to me; in fact he was inside Coe's schedule up to 400m. Even at 600m he was only 0.7 behind WR schedule. He then clearly couldn't hold on to the pace, showing inferior endurance, as the next two 200m went 27,4 (1:46.58) and 27.5 (2:14.08)

Well then, that just goes to show that Coe didn't run as fast as he could in 81, and proves my point that had he just run 800s in record attempts that summer, then he would have run much faster.

WTF are you guys going on about???

Seriously, I have no idea.

You are all communist sympathizers by watching that video.

my money is on Deano round 8 by TKO unless Vent gets a low blow in early.

none ran as hard as cruz did in games & subsequent number of sub-1'43s & even a 2'14

apart from kip, none of the others had body of work post games of cruz - these were 1 wr & at most a coupla good performances - NOT quality of 3 sub-1'43s & a 2'14

even kip, had 1 less heat to run in '97 & he didn't blast 2 prelims & the weather was far less sapping - all far less taxing than for cruz

try again idiot

experience of watching races for decades & not making up crap about races you watched as a kid

moron

kip ran 1'42.67i in MARCH

as for cruz, he ran 3'53pb in May & rest were ncaa & pac-10 races & NO euro circuit races - the 3'53 which he never beat shows he was in top form early season

learn to read

all he is saying is that the most important races were later on, not that his peak woud be then

find one where he says "i was in best shape of season in august"

eh ??

where do you come up with that ?

find some link ?

i recall no "several month" build up to this

it was 1st diamond league race - that's all

drivel

"reasonable shape" ??

rudy had run 1'42.01 & kaki's best was 1'42.69 from nearly 2y before

how on earth does a 1'42.69 guy from nearly 2y ago expect to beat a recent 1'42.01 guy with just "reasonable shape" ???

kaki was in top shape - shape of his life & it was in JUNE

nonsense

perfect drafting for 800 is like coe limpet-like attached to konchellah

kaki was for most parts of the race 2+m behind rudy, especially from bell to homestretch & even when he was catching him, he ran on outside of his shoulder & not directly behind

he was getting practically no drafting benefit & to all intents was unaided

drivel

even his best form of his career from previous years woudn't have got him close

he ran it with no proper drafting aid & he smashed his pb by 0.46s

nonsense

he ran 1'43.10, 1'43.48, 1'43.50, 1'43.84 afterwards

you don't run those with any significant injury

moron

he faced rudy again in august & rudy had just broken the wr 5/7 before & beat kaki by 1'43.50 to 1'43.84

moron

only an idiot woud compare sammy or johnny's efforts in the ganes to cruz's titme-trial like 1'45/1'44/1'43

there is no comparison

& they never ran the body of work post gmaes of a 1'41, 2 1'42s & a 2'14

like i told you kid, those games races shouda finished cruz for the year & no 1/52 of rest woud make any difference

he had to be superhuman to run anything of note afterwards

no

the peak is for the games with 2 or 3 week training camp for it

there was no such camp for euro circuit after

he was running on virtual fumes after & still went 1'41.77

like i said, you were a 7y ole kid with a 7y ole's brain watching it

too stoopid to understand concept of

"once in a lifetime run"

moron

it was the last open 400 he ran in his career & it was in '80 when he was 16 or 17y

you are a complete moron

zurich woud pay him only for an 800 & to turn up in shape to run a damn fast one, not wasted from a 1k 2/7 before & sag to a 1'45 which might not even get him in top 3

you are a complete & utter moron

not even such a moron coud believe running a 1k 2/7 before a 800wr attempt is the way to prepare for latter

all races post-games were labelled "wr attempts"

it doesn't mean they were genuine attempts

do you even think before you post ??

he went thru in mid-1'46

that is jogging for a guy who went 1'41.77 soon after

are you so stoopid you can't see that ??

clearly for whatever reason, after 600m he lost interest in the clocking - perharps he thought the effort to keep going hard to a 2'13 or even dip into the 2'12s woud be too much considering zurich was main focus, or he just didn't feel "right" at 600m - 1'19 is a nothing split for a guy who went 1'16 in numerous races that year

no

it shows nothing of the sort

kip is unique as is coe & no such inference can be made

learn to read moron :

"once in a lifetime effort"

& if that needs embellishing,

coe never even broke 1'43 for the remaining 8y of his career

ukathleticscoach wrote:a guy who runs 800/1500/mile wrs a bottler ??

You are not helping your case. A bottler is someone who has the ability but bottles it when it matters most

moron

i don't need a definition

You also missed my point about running as well, it's not how fast you ran - you didn't run at all!

f***ing idiot

are you a mindreader or just an imbecile ???

you know nothing about what i ran

I notice you dodged the question on his 1,000m time prediction. Come on get your abacus out

without any 1500 background there is no solid number to use

deanouk wrote:As for indoor and banked tracks, I'd prefer to use common sense and listen to all those (who've actually run on modern mondo banked indoor tracks) who argued against what you've said about them, on another thread this week

clearly you are in idiot if you believe that

they gave nothing but "it's just as fast as outdoors" which is ludicrous seeing as hicham went 3'31i wr on the legendary stuttgart & went 3'28 outdoors same year

i saw nothing analytical offered in refutation to JRMs work ( it took a simple extrapolation of that to get some estimates )

Ventolin3 you really should read that book I suggested 'We'

You are D-503!