This is appalling....and nauseating..and back to appalling

The Waterboy wrote:

SAME THING with abortion from rape/incest or life of mother. Okay it's for a great cause, saves the life of the mother etc but you are hurting an INNOCENT LIFE separate from yourself, and in the same way that you wouldn't torture the innocent wife of a murdering terrorist to get information, you wouldn't kill an innocent baby to save the life of the mother.

I respect your argument and the consistency of your position. Yours is the only anti-abortion position I can fully understand, even if I disagree with its conclusion.

I differ with you on the life of the mother situation. However horrible it is to imagine, if your child, however innocently, seriously and acutely threatens your life (as in you will surely die), you do have the right to kill your child if that is the only way of removing that threat. Nobody questions this right.

Now some people, myself included, would never exercise this right (I would die before killing my child), it does remain a right.

This is how I view the "mother's life" part of abortion. There are some cases where the fetus acutely and lethally threatens the woman's life, in which case the woman retains the right, however horrific some may find it, to have an abortion/kill the fetus/murder the baby to save her own life. It is up to the mother to exercise this right or not, and if the mother would rather die than abort the fetus inside of her, then that is her right. It is also her right to abort the fetus inside of her so she can live.

Most people are okay with killing flies/bugs/bacteria/fungi/plants what's the difference between those and a 1 week old baby?

The point is, there is no right answer. Both sides of the debate make very good points. Both have an equal weight of flaws.

Is this a song or something?

The yahoo article sounds like good subject matter for a CANNIBAL CORPSE song!!!!

I have to admit that my personal opinion about abortion changed a lot when my girlfriend in 2002 (a Japanese woman) became pregnant. Her parents clearly did not want her to have an American boyfriend/husband so they forced her to have an abortion at about 2 months, without my knowledge. I was really pissed off because I didn't have any say in the matter.

My girlfriend didn't want to have an abortion, and was traumatized by it for a long time, and this episode was the demise our the relationship.

I feel really sad when I see a 6-8 year old boy or girl playing because that's how old my child would be today.

I'm with you on this....I won't go into the abortion debate but the way this doctor handled his practice in that manner is extremely disturbing.

abortion luver wrote:

My take on it wrote:

How any thinking person can support abortion is beyond me. This is sick.

How any thinking person can support religion (or existence of a god) is beyond me. They are sick (in the head).

I'm not religious actually. There might be a god, I have absolutely no idea. What does that have to do with anything?

Government regulation saves the day again!

Now I'm off to save the economy! Up up and away!

Did you wear a condom?

This isn't actually abortion, it's murder. You can't abort a viable, live-born baby.

What he was doing was illegal and has nothing to do with ordinary abortions.

abortion luver wrote:

If the baby can not live outside the womb (unaided, not in a NICU) it is not yet a baby.

Every healthy baby would die within a day or two if left untended after birth. How do you measure viability? If a baby can survive in NICU, is it not viable?

I killed my baby. Was it murder?

Baby was discovered in utero with a serious defect. Specialist doctors even mentioned we could go to a neighboring state to abort if we wanted.

We didn't. Baby was born, serious health issues, in and out of hospital, tons of drugs and required future organ transplant.

He crashed, was revived and barely hanging on, but with major brain damage after losing oxygen to brain. We pulled him off life support and he died in our arms.

If I could do it all over again, I would have aborted mid-term.

I believe life starts at conception. I am also pro-abortion, early, mid, late term. Also, infant, toddler, teenager, middle-aged and old.

not a dad wrote:

I killed my baby. Was it murder?

Baby was discovered in utero with a serious defect. Specialist doctors even mentioned we could go to a neighboring state to abort if we wanted.

We didn't. Baby was born, serious health issues, in and out of hospital, tons of drugs and required future organ transplant.

He crashed, was revived and barely hanging on, but with major brain damage after losing oxygen to brain. We pulled him off life support and he died in our arms.

If I could do it all over again, I would have aborted mid-term.

Dude, I hope you are a troll. If not, please don't post that on this message board. Your experience deserves more respect than this board will give it. I am so sorry that happened to y'all.

From the Ayn Rand Lexicon (http://aynrandlexicon.com/lexicon/abortion.html):

An embryo has no rights. Rights do not pertain to a potential, only to an actual being. A child cannot acquire any rights until it is born. The living take precedence over the not-yet-living (or the unborn).

Abortion is a moral right—which should be left to the sole discretion of the woman involved; morally, nothing other than her wish in the matter is to be considered. Who can conceivably have the right to dictate to her what disposition she is to make of the functions of her own body?

“Of Living Death,”

The Voice of Reason, 58–59.

Never mind the vicious nonsense of claiming that an embryo has a “right to life.” A piece of protoplasm has no rights—and no life in the human sense of the term. One may argue about the later stages of a pregnancy, but the essential issue concerns only the first three months. To equate a potential with an actual, is vicious; to advocate the sacrifice of the latter to the former, is unspeakable. . . . Observe that by ascribing rights to the unborn, i.e., the nonliving, the anti-abortionists obliterate the rights of the living: the right of young people to set the course of their own lives. The task of raising a child is a tremendous, lifelong responsibility, which no one should undertake unwittingly or unwillingly. Procreation is not a duty: human beings are not stock-farm animals. For conscientious persons, an unwanted pregnancy is a disaster; to oppose its termination is to advocate sacrifice, not for the sake of anyone’s benefit, but for the sake of misery qua misery, for the sake of forbidding happiness and fulfillment to living human beings.

“A Last Survey,” The Ayn Rand Letter, IV, 2, 3.

There will never be a war. Even the people who pretend to be appalled, really do not care enough to take any action. The fact is, even the staunch anti-abortion activist really doesn't look at an abortion as equal to murder of a child, because, if they did, they wouldn't just picket or lay down in the street in front of a clinic.

Imagine if a doctor showed up at a random school in your state, and identified a given number of kids a month, let's say 32 kindergarteners, whose parents had just had enough, and needed them exterminated to carry on a normal life. So the doctor gathers them in the cafeteria, and gives them a nice humane pithing.

You think people would just picket the doctor's office and lay down in the street to protest his actions? Children and fetuses are treated differently. Even if the protesters are unwilling to admit it.

pettygrove AC wrote:

If you don't like abortions then don't have one.

Are you male? Then it matters not what you support or don't support.

It takes two Sweet Pea.

Butchered at Birth:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0zkz4GmOzJc

You're a very disturbed individual

You have a point there.