Regarding censoring language you regularly use to shelter your kids from exposure to it, as my Dad might have put it, "What a load of horseshit."
Regarding censoring language you regularly use to shelter your kids from exposure to it, as my Dad might have put it, "What a load of horseshit."
Michael T. Smith that was very well stated. I am going to print that out and hang it on my refrigerator. You nailed it.
Only when they cuss in front of me.
Michael, I very much enjoyed your post and you obviously have some real IQ power driving your composition. Of course it is a clear case of intellectual rationalization justifying vulgar or swearing language in front of children. Not sure why you have the need to devote so much energy to justify it but I'm guessing with all the references to your father it has something to do with him. Your rationalization starts with dismissing the existance of vulgar or blasphemous language (its all so relative it really doesn't exist) Then you argue how important it was for your father to expose and teach kids the judicious use of blasphemous or vulgar language. I would say about 99.99 percent of the vulgar and blasphemous language that I hear reflects an individual who is not in control of emotions, is not able to articulate effectively or a reflection of language learned as a kid by adults who lacked both. Yes it can be effective to demonstrate that you are very angry, or that you are a potentially aggressive person who might be a loose cannon, or that you can defy society rules. But it also sometimes is effective to throw a tantrum like a two year old. People sometimes give in when you do that. I suppose we should expose kids to adults tantruming too because sometimes that is effective. Use of vulgar and blashemous language, may at times be effective, but it usually reflects poorly on the person who is unable to express himself more effectively. Most often it is used by a poorly controlled inarticulate person or a bully. (Boss trying to scare subordinates)We don't need to teach our kids to do or be that.PS What was your father like anyway?
michael t. smith wrote:
Cuss. profanity.
First of all, recognise that the acceptibility of various words "in polite society" or on "a family show" or in "mixed company" is all a matter of context and culture. There is no such thing as a profane or vulgar word a priori. A word is only crude or suggestive because we are conditioned to or choose to regard it as such.
Only a little over a century ago, it was considered vulgar to say "leg" because it irresistibly conjured up visual imagery of that unbearably erotic female extremity. In polite society one said "limb" or you revealed yourself to be a boor or a philistine.
Only a century or so before that, one could say shit or c*** before royalty without a blush.
Thirty years ago,it would have been unthinkable to say "pee" in mixed company, in a schoolroom, for example, or on television. To tell a runner to get his butt in gear was perilously close to the line, and to say "ass" in front of a student was unquestionably way over it.
None of those expressions raise an eyebrow when uttered by either sex in class now.
Yet a film now will still get an R rating for a few "f***s."
It is sad to think how much energy is expended in high schools even today trying to ensure that kids never encounter the word "f***" whenever an adult is around, or is in a positiono censor it, as if to foster the hypocrisy that adults are unfamiliar with it, or don't use it. Were you fooled by this as a kid? They aren't now, either.
Consider the all-too-frequent meeting with some kid's parent within months of the day he will be called on to vote, or possibly die for his country, and the topic of controversy is that I have given him a reading list from which to choose an independent reading book, and he has happened to choose "Cather in the Rye" in which he encountered the word "f***" (incidentally, in a most innocuous context- Holden objects to it being scrawled where his sister will see it.)
Does anyone imagine that high school kids are not familiar with the word, and use, and overuse it themselves?
As with alcohol, I think it is useful to young people to have available to them the example of adults who use strong language judiciously, rather than constantly. My own father used language with contextual judiciousness, with sensitivity to the audience and the situation, but expressed his contempt for people who were linguistically squeamish with the dismissive "He wouldn't say 'shit' if he had a mouthful."
The fact is, in many situations, "f***" in all its forms, is an extremely useful, expressive, and versatile (not to mention common) word.
The problem where kids are concerned, as with much else, is that they tend to overuse those things with which they are just becoming familiar; be it items of clothing, music, hairstyles or new and colorful language they tend to use the novel thing constantly, often imprecisely, or with little subtlety, and with little appreciation for nuance. In short, with their clothing, music, hair,language and whatever is the common group fetish of the moment, teenagers have a certain penchant for employing it awkwardly, immoderately, inelegantly,and thus, from the adult perspective, unbecomingly,and annoyingly.
So the better question is not "Do you 'cuss' around your kids?"- a question that implies that cussing is a fault we all share, but with self-contol we can protect our chilren from exposure to-but rather "Do you 'cuss' expressively, moderately, appropriately, around your children so that they have a model other than their equally clueless peers on how to express themselves eloquently and stylishly, incorporating powerful expressions with economy and impact rather than with inarticulate monotony?"
Definitely not. If I get extremely angry, I might yell out "Oh bananas" or "DRAT!".
Not Knowing wrote:
I do not understand why this expression "F*** You" is meant as a cuss. Why would you say "I want to procreate with you!" as something awful?
its bkuz of the male-male scenario of sodomy that makes it so offensived.
you've obviously never been behind bars.
Dat's how we roll mother-clucker!
No, nor behind their backs. Why not? "let no corrupt communication come out of your mouth"
A much deeper reason.
anecdotal:
My parents abhorred swearing, I cursed at a young age and much more frequently than other kids.
I swear in front of my kids the same as I do in "real" life. I assume they have restraint, I've never heard different from other parants. In any case they couldn't be worse than I was.