Ghosts. Why do you not believe?

IDIOTS IDIOTS ALL OF YOU!!!! wrote:

Trial and Error wrote:

Now please try to develop your intellect beyond that of a typical 5th grader. For everyone's sake.

Assuming you're not a troll, why are you wasting your time with me. You should be out there trying to stop SETI from wasting our tax dollars...

Believe it or not there is a difference between claiming that it is illogical to believe with any confidence that there is intelligent life elsewhere and claiming that there must not be any intelligent life elsewhere. I know that this might require that post-5th grade intellectual development that you apparently lack but keep working on it.

Wise Guy wrote:

Uh, no. Some pretty bright people have given this a fair amount of thought and have developed A FRAMEWORK (which you may not realize is different than an answer) for thinking about the problem by breaking it into smaller parts so that one can attack each of them to try to get an answer.

The ones who recognize that any value substituted in for fsubl, fsubi, or fsubc is nothing more than a wild-assed guess are indeed bright. You, not so much.

Drake used his FRAMEWORK to come to the conclusion that there were probably about 10000 planets with intelligent life.[/quote]

So? Until one can do anything more than wild-ass guess at fsubi, fsubl, and fsubc (and nobody can at this point - although this does not preclude the possibility of doing better in the future) any such conclusion is nothing more than, yup, you guessed it, a wild-assed guess.

Hobo Wine wrote:

Calling other people stupid doesn't make your argument sound (dumbass)

Trial and Error wrote:

It also does not make it unsound.

And I've noticed nobody has tried to make a logical counter-argument.

Could be a long wait on that one.

Man, I just LOVE LRC.

Trial and Error, I'm curious what you would want to have as substantial logical evidence that it is probable that life exists elsewhere in the universe. Do you believe in the Rare Earth hypothesis? If so, it is based on many "wild ass" approximations, as you would say.

Also, please recognize that we are never going to find another earth. Just recently NASA found a microorganism that substituted arsenic for phosphorous in it's DNA. Crazy stuff, expands our definition of what life is. Knowing that our definition of life is expanded makes it even more likely that there are organisms SOMEWHERE in the universe.

In the end it is an interesting debate. I thank you for calling my post one of the dumbest on letsrun, honored.

Hey, when such authoritative networks like the History Channel believes in ghosts, then I believe as well!!!

Samuel L Jackson wrote:

Trial and Error, I'm curious what you would want to have as substantial logical evidence that it is probable that life exists elsewhere in the universe...

... I thank you for calling my post one of the dumbest on letsrun, honored.

When someone can derive estimates for fi, fl, fc using logic, science and mathematics then we will have something to go on. Right now folks just pull a number out of a hat with the justification that "Gee, that seems like a big/small number".

For example, Drake used 10^(-2) for fi. His conclusion was that there were probably lots of intelligent civilizations out there. However, Joe Schmoe could just as easily have chosen 10^(-200) for fi. The conclusion then would be that the chances of there being even one additional intelligent civilization out there was infinitesimally remote.

And what is the difference in justification for these two diametrically opposed conclusions? A simple, completely unsupportable numerical assumption. Neither 10^(-2) nor 10^(-200) is in any way supportable. Just numbers pulled out of folks asses. So, until people can do something more than this, the whole thing is perhaps fun speculation but not really much of a debate without the ability to support a particular choice of number.

And as far as your previous post being dumb - yeah, it was dumb. You may in fact be brilliant but the post said "If you don't believe in aliens you not rational. With the billions of worlds that exist across the universe there is life somewhere else out there."

In other words, billions seems like a lot so therefore life exists out there (but not if fi = 10^(-200)). Dumb.

Just want to say I am not concerned about intelligent life, just life. Do you honestly not think that there is some form of life in all the countless planets and moons across the universe, espescially now that NASA has discovered a lifeform that thrives on Arsenic?

I am not concerned about the Drake equation.

Samuel L Jackson wrote:

Just want to say I am not concerned about intelligent life, just life. Do you honestly not think that there is some form of life in all the countless planets and moons across the universe, espescially now that NASA has discovered a lifeform that thrives on Arsenic?

I am not concerned about the Drake equation.

I have no idea.

It is an interesting possibility. And I do believe that humans will know (or at least be able to give meaningful probabilities) within the lifetime of many who are alive today. But right now believing or not strikes me as essentially similar to religious believers and non-believers. The only intellectually honest answer today is "I have no idea" (or variants thereof).

I don't believe in ghosts.

I have never thought about why till now.

I am influenced by never having seen one.

I am influenced by the negative opinion I have of many people who say they have seen one.

I am influenced by no one in my family believing in them.

I am influenced by a lack of academic or investigative proof that they exist.

I am influenced by the simple, often embarrasing to the person who thought they saw a ghost, explanation of what they did see, or what drug they were on a the time.

I think that paranormal research should continue, both by ghost believers and nonbelievers. Reports should be checked out. Ignorance does not help solve this, or most areas of inquiry.

Here's the real on ghosts: what do you idiots think the Ghostsbusters were chasing? Leaves? Nothing? Remember, "there is no Dana, there is only Zool"- that is scary as a mug!

Also, sheck out the ghost show on Animal Planet, by far the best and scariest ghost show, seriously. If the Ghostbuster argument doesnt move you, the animal planet ghost show will!

Sp!kes wrote:

Here's the real on ghosts: what do you idiots think the Ghostsbusters were chasing? Leaves? Nothing? Remember, "there is no Dana, there is only Zool"- that is scary as a mug!

Also, sheck out the ghost show on Animal Planet, by far the best and scariest ghost show, seriously. If the Ghostbuster argument doesnt move you, the animal planet ghost show will!

Hmmm...I nothing but respect for Animal Planet programming, but didn't watching Scooby Doo teach you that ghosts and monsters were just old bitter bastards in masks?

Trial and Error wrote:

The only intellectually honest answer today is "I have no idea" (or variants thereof).

Same here.

Samuel L Jackson wrote:

Trial and Error wrote:

The only intellectually honest answer today is "I have no idea" (or variants thereof).

Same here.

Well, now that you two alien "debaters" have kissed and made up, can we now talk about the REAL issue, ghosts in my pants!

Because if there were ghosts, don't you think at least one of them would make it very obvious? What kind of ghost sits in the same room it was killed in for hundreds of years? The ghost hunters go there and interpret something simple like "him" or "stop" from the one second of jibberish they "pick up". Why wouldn't the ghost say HHEYYYYY, ghost here. Let's go to a strip club. I am f***ing bored, glad you guys came.

Why don't you believe in Gandalf or Zeus? I really hope continued research continues though.

All I know is that we can't prove they exist and neither we can prove they exist.

I think there might be a scientfical explanation related to electromagnetism to explain all phenomenons.

Trial and Error wrote:

I have no idea.

It is an interesting possibility. And I do believe that humans will know (or at least be able to give meaningful probabilities) within the lifetime of many who are alive today. But right now believing or not strikes me as essentially similar to religious believers and non-believers. The only intellectually honest answer today is "I have no idea" (or variants thereof).

It's vanishingly unlikely that we'll be able to prove there isn't life on another planet within the next ~80 years, so you must be saying you believe we will find life. Which implies you believe there is life on other planets. ZING!

You did say probabilities, but again a meaningful probability would probably only arise if we found life somewhere.