You forgot adding Bill Reifsnyder and Steve Spence to the list of class acts/studs
Spivey not so sure. Ran the Notre Dame Invite back in 1998 and he got pure excitement at kicking down NC States Chris Dugan in the open race...people were disgusted at that.
Because there are tighter turns and shorter straightaways.
what am i missing wrote:
What is so dangerous about a 200 meter track that one needs to be careful?
If Dathan is used to 7 miles of intervals on the roads or outdoor track, it is not unreasonable to think he could just move his workout to the indoor track if he wants. Why is he an idiot?
So what?
Frustrated fan wrote:
Today's runners are such pussies. They are born with tons of talent yet race 3 or 4 times a year, if lucky. They're either head cases or made of glass. I'm referring to Ritz, Webb, Hall, Rupp, and Fernandez. Race, boys!!! Get out there and man up, like Rodgers, Nenow, Shorter, Steve Scott, Pfitz, Malmo, Spivey. He'll, Scott was a freaking miler who banged out top 10ks on the roads. How do these guys get sponsors while only racing 3 times a year??? Get out there, boys!
Rupp ran more races in 2010 than any other American pro, don't know WTF you're talking about including him in that list, since he races the most, not a head case, not injury prone.
Good point. And Rupp steps out of his comfort zone a lot, running miles, 1500's, and I even recall a few 800's. Remember the thread on letsrun.com after Rupp got beat by some no-name 800 dude running 1:51 or something? That can't be good for the ego but Rupp did it anyway because it will help him be a better runner.
He ran tough in Beijing in the heat. Rupp is tough, he deserves a little more respect.
Here you go:
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=3380282&thread=3380182
Rupp isn't afraid to get his butt kicked if he's looking at the bigger picture. It wasn't even 1:51, it was 1:54. Yikes.
Ritz has been injury prone for years, so we can immediately forgo blaming Salazar, Hudson, Wetmore, or anybody else. Upper-echelon runners simply put stresses on their bodies that are near the limit of what it can take. The muscle contractions it takes to sustain the paces at which they perform are near what soft tissue can handle. I'd bet most of the people calling ritz "glass" can't even race at his training pace. Think of the elites like race cars, and yourself like a honda civic. It takes a hell of a lot more maintenance and break downs to get a race car to 100,000 miles on the odometer than a civic.
LeBron doesn't have the smoothest "rhythm in his shot" (whatever that is)-- there's a visible hitch pre-release. Monta Ellis has the smoothest jumper in the league.
Somebody Call Da Doctor wrote:
You aren't getting any younger. Kid you ran 12:56 why the hell do you need to worry about your stride. Quit drinking the Al Sal kool-aid and get back under somebody who knows what the hell they are doing. Could you imagine somebody telling Lebron he doesn't have the smoothest rhythm in his shot!!
Not close. You have to lay some blame on Salazar for this injury. Revisit the article posted below. Ritz has multiple injuries with Al. He has also failed to meet hype and sensationalism. I've put Salazar's own words below...
"But there’s a risk. We may injure you.’ Dathan said, ‘I’m willing to take that risk.’ And so we started changing his form.”
Ritz's stellar times sub 13 and 60 flat are 3 and 5 months after joining Salazar. The decision to "change form" came after. This coaching decision seems to be a lemon.
Read more
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/11/08/101108fa_fact_kahn#ixzz1A6g8kMza
Wallet Inspector wrote:
Not close. You have to lay some blame on Salazar for this injury. Revisit the article posted below. Ritz has multiple injuries with Al. He has also failed to meet hype and sensationalism. I've put Salazar's own words below...
"But there’s a risk. We may injure you.’ Dathan said, ‘I’m willing to take that risk.’ And so we started changing his form.”
Ritz's stellar times sub 13 and 60 flat are 3 and 5 months after joining Salazar. The decision to "change form" came after. This coaching decision seems to be a lemon.
Read more
http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2010/11/08/101108fa_fact_kahn#ixzz1A6g8kMza
Agreed. Without even discussing the form-changing experiment, it is the coach's fault that Ritz CONTINUES to get injured. At the elite level, a good coach's primary responsibility is to keep his athlete healthy and in-check during workouts. A healthy Ritz, running well below the red line year round is going to destroy the regularly injured Ritz who runs 110% when he is healthy, only to produce a couple of incredible workouts and time trials, then is not able to produce in the races for which he is peaking.
Elite coaching is a whole different ball game. In high school and college it is largely about motivating, teaching athletes to work hard, etc. Post-college, it is more about working with the already hyper-motivated, incredibly talented athlete, to begin making smart training decisions aiming for long-term success. Long stints of uninterrupted training, especially for a marathon runner, are crucial to breaking through to the next level of performance.
A 7-mile interval workout indoors does not lead to a "freak accident" (Ritz's words). It is a sure-fire formula for disaster...ESPECIALLY if you are working with an athlete who is known for getting injured, and has recently been working to change his mechanics in significant ways.
Blame Salazar for this one, unless the workout details were not worked out by him.
classof89 wrote:
No, it's called cycling their doping schedule.
Seriously, how is the training "improved". Everybody is still doing some form of base, hills/XC, intervals, tapering that Lydiard popularized in the 60's but started with Gerschler back in the 30's.
The 10K AR dropped only 21 sec in 24 years. The big difference being the rise of professionalism and big money sponsorship (and PED) not some revolutionary training method.
The other thing is you can still "race" as part of your training. It helps you mentally prepare--show up on time to the race, get used to traveling and sleeping in a strange bed, time your meals and bathroom break properly, respond to moves in a race, etc. Don't race your primary distance or don't finish the race if you're worried about peaking improperly.
You can still race and peak for a major race, they did it in the 80's. Almost every training manual has "race" at least every other week after the base and hill phase of training.
As for Ritz, they have to stop "tinkering" with his training and form. This is no "ideal form". On one extreme is a form that is very "efficient" from an energy consumption standpoint like Chi-running on the other extreme is a form that is mechanically efficient from a speed standpoint (tight leg recovery, higher knee lift, etc).
If he's getting injured so much, then Al Sal needs to step back and just "undertrain" Ritz until he gets a good foundation going.
I never stated that there was some "revolutionary training method," so dont get your panties in a twist. I am stating that training methods have improved, not necissarily changed. no matter how long we tweak and fix our training methods, they will never be perfect.
The adjustment in particular that I was referring to was racing less. These arnt high school runners, they know what the hell they are doing in races and usually out of the 3-5 races they do, most of them are just that, stuff to tune up on. All these adjustments may have been used by certain coaches beforehand but now it seems as thought they are getting more and more universally accepted. but ive noticed that training is becoming more and more personalized and specific, you dont train any two the same and each year you have in all reality one goal that you train for
malmo- haha i got you man, the track workout seems really odd to me as well, I was mostly frustrated with people ngry that the pros such as Sol and ritz dont race more often
Ritz retires in the next 18 months.
Injury cycle keeps him out of the trials. All the Nike money cannot get him healthy. Personal expectations wont allow him to be that b level runner always coming back.
Duhr wrote:
malmo- haha i got you man, the track workout seems really odd to me as well, I was mostly frustrated with people ngry that the pros such as Sol and ritz dont race more often
They should race more often.
what am i missing wrote:
So what?
That is a LOT of stress going in one turning direction consistently and frequently, especially on a banked track. Now add in the use of spike or flats, low-profile shoes, that he prob hadn't been in for a while...this isn't hard to figure out.
My first chronic injury was tendonitis in my right foot, just underneath my ankle. It began to swell severely shortly after a 9-mile interval session on an outdoor track. Ever since then, it well ache and constrict movement in my right foot from time to time due to repeat swelling, usually after very long or very hard sessions on a track.
If you don't believe all of those turns in low-profile shoes on a track put a beating on your lower legs, then feel free to reenact Ritz's workout.
Best of luck.
Whan Al Sal gets his PhD in physics and publishes widely in a number mechanical engineering journals (that are reviewed positively by his peers) then he MAY be qualified to suggest changing the physics of a tremendously complex form moving through space.
Until that time: He’s just a monkey playing with his own poo.
what am i missing wrote:
What is so dangerous about a 200 meter track that one needs to be careful?
If Dathan is used to 7 miles of intervals on the roads or outdoor track, it is not unreasonable to think he could just move his workout to the indoor track if he wants. Why is he an idiot?
Because running fast on those tight turns puts a LOT of torque on your ankles -- especially if it's a flat (i.e., unbanked) indoor track, and I'm betting it was.
Just plain stupid for a fragile guy like Ritz to do that.
Poor bastard! The guy is getting injured year after year and giving up some of his prime in the process. He is an amazing runner and very fleet of foot but this injury thing is getting old. Lukas,Futsum, and a few others are the future of american running anyways. Ritz you had your chance. Now it is time to ride off into the sunset.
Just may be not injured at all. Just a guess.
What would y'all think if this were a "convenient" excuse not to embarrass again. Rather say "I made a stupid training mistake and got injured" then race or withdraw due to not being competitive.
This seems plausible. Don't you think?
More plausible than Ritz doing something dumb in training and inviting injury? Not really. I love watching the guy but he's a freaking clone of A. Goucher. What good is all that work if you don't make it to the starting line? All of it is a bit like a mental illness or something.
Ritz is not fragile. He just showed us why he keeps getting injured. EWven Solinsky would have limped away from that one.