Douglas I agree with you, on most of your points. I was there, she ran a great debut marathon, but she was allowed to cheat. She should have been sent home without any prize money but maybe travel fair to get her off the island. Invite her back next year; to run it without aid. They have been warned about the cheating behavior; if they continue to run together, she should be banned.
Why do the runners under your point 5 want US citizenship, and why should they be given it? Do they REALLY consider the US their 'home' or just a place where they can make money (e.g. do they even speak grammatically correct English)? There has been a trend of Ethiopians and Kenyans 'immigrating' to countries where running is less popular than in their countries of birth. They could be citizens of Azerbaijan, Turkey, Finland, or Spain. My solution: you help them get citizenship in those countries...
Why not ban them right now. You are assuming it was deliberate and its been repeated already. Are you waiting for a third strike.Your protest has nothing to do with reality. Paula radcliffe was paced by a male runner when she broke the record. Only difference is that he did not hand her water. A runner like gebre can easily make this mistake that having someone run next to her and exchange water was ok as long as the source was not someone a manager outside.I agree that they should not run together so that it does not give the appearance of assistance.. but if they are in the same race and if she catches him. I don't see why that should be held against them.I feel a lot of jelousy against these athletes that come to the US to live and race. But its wasted effort. Nothing will stop these people from coming here. Look at M Hussien. He was the top american @ the Hawaii marathon. The flood gates have not opened. But in maybe 10 years most of the top american runners will be africans. aka sally kipyego's and the like. But as long as they are legally here and american they will represent the country well - because they truly appreciate the opportunities that this country provides.Hiding behind the internet and making these comments changes nothing. I know who is writing this D Monti we know you very well!!!
mist wrote:
Douglas I agree with you, on most of your points. I was there, she ran a great debut marathon, but she was allowed to cheat. She should have been sent home without any prize money but maybe travel fair to get her off the island. Invite her back next year; to run it without aid. They have been warned about the cheating behavior; if they continue to run together, she should be banned.
Don't be ridiculous - Monti posts on LRC under his real name and should not be defamed on account of the fact that he DOES want athletes to play by the rules. As for the rest of your post, you are only showing that you are not really in touch with the elite running world. Sisay's pacing HAS been a big concern for the last 6-12 months. They HAVE been warned. Or did you think Sisay just dropped out of the race at 25 miles because he was tired? They KNEW they were doing something wrong. As for it being the same as Paula being paced - are you joking? Paula's pacer were available for the entrie field and were announced prior to the race. It was only Paula who could stay with them though.
You keep saying.. they have been warned.. but there is no record of this. Can you provide the race and the circumstances?
Without that you sound like you are just another jealous poster.
Also - she was running ahead of the pacer so having another pacer in the race is not necessarily a problem.
If the others could have kept up with her pace they could have followed the faster male pacer.
I am convinced that this is something personal for you. You are not looking at it objectively. Its ok to like someone - but calling people that did not intend to cheat cheaters... is a little over the line - and you sound a little desperate.
Why should I speak up on account of people who obviously did not want to speak up for themselves? And, moreover, why should I do your homework for you. Look at "their" races for the last 6-12 months. Call the race directors. Ask them if the issue was discussed.
If they did not think that they were doing something wrong then why did Sisay drop out with one mile to go?
If they did not think they were doing something wrong then why does Sisay USUALLY go out with the elite men, fake an injury, and then drop back to run Gebre's pace?
This isn't rocket science.
As for it being personal - perhaps. I am very involved with the sport at the elite level and don't like to see one lady depriving others of a chance to win by cheating.
Having said that - in MOST cases Gebre would have won the race with or without her help. It is not possible to say that was the case at Honolulu with absolute certainty though.
You are right about one thing though - race directors have dropped the ball in terms of not PUBLICLY warning the pair of them.
That doesn't accuse the fact, however, that these two are not idiots - even if they had never been warned - they still know it is wrong. That is why they do it in such a shady manner i.e. the faking of injuries, dropping out with one mile to go, etc.
As for the two of them on a personal level - I have met both of them and they are both extremely nice people. That does not make what they are doing right.
accuse = change (not sure how I managed that)
As requested here is the research you asked me to do. I took her resume from the last time she emailed me and went back to the same races for this year. I also looked up some other major races--- and i could have missed some races but here is details
Based on the list below -
I found only 2 other instances where they finished within a few seconds of eachother. Also I found only 5 races where they both run together.
So if your theory was right - they should be racing almost every race together so that he can pace her and that is not true.
You asked me to do the research and I did it. I hope you take it into consideration and look into your heart and see what is driving your animosity. I don't think its based on fact - its based on something else.
1) Crecsent City Classic - April 3rd 2010 - No Sisay - Gebre 2nd
2) July 4 Peachtree - No Sisay - Gebre 6th
3) Cherry Blossom 10 Miler Gebre 3rd no Sisay
4) Utica Boiler Maker - July 10 Gebre 3rd no Sisay
5) World Best 10k Feb Gebre 8th - No Sisay
6) Indianapolis Mini Marathon - Gebre 2nd No Sisay
7) America's Finest Marathon - Sisay 1st Gebre 1st did not run together (6 minutes apart)
8) Dam to Dam 20
- Sisay 1st no Gebre
9) Lilac Bloomsday
Gebre 6th no Sisay
10) Grandma's Marathon Sisay 11th no Gebre
11) Crazy 8 - 8k 1 second difference
12) Boulder Bolder Only Gebre 3rd no Sisay
13) Tulsa 15k Gebre 1st and Sisay 3rd 5 minute difference
14) Big sur Gebre 1st and Sisay 9th - 5 second difference
3 out of 15 races... you mentioned that they have been warned before so...that must have happened at crazy 8 or big sur... and i honestly think that she ran big sur to test her fitness for the marathon and run a pb. He probably did do the step back and help her run a pb there.. but having won the race 2 years ago - I don't think he went in with that intent.
At any rate - I think your theory is streached and mostly motivated by hate/jeoulosy - its obvious. Your vision is clouded by something other than fact.
Wait. 3 out of 15 races is a lot when 0 out of 15 races is the correct answer. It's also possible that he could've dropped out in some of those races. It takes a lot for me to be sympathetic to a Russian road racer but I'm there.
Race Director,
Thanks for the info - it seems i had it wrong. I also thought there was something fishy. But they hardly ever race together.
I also saw that they run separate races in mexico. He ran this 10k
she ran in bermuda and wharf to wharf.
http://www.esmintl.com/athleteDetails.asp?id=174
The argument that the race together "almost all the time" is a HUGE strech.
Sorry dudes - you sound like you are a bunch of x highschoolers and D2 runners that got dusted by her.
Get a grip - how desperate can you get. JEEZ
Probably one of the sorriest things i have seen on lets run.
FYI - the contention was that they did this in multiple races and it has resulted in warnings.. and the grand total that was found was 2 races. So - who did the multiple warnings. The Crazy8k race or the Big Sur Half Marathon. Big sur is a joke.. its not even a challenge for her. There is no need to get paced in a race where she won by 10 minutes..VERY RIDICULOUS and STUPID COMMENT. You are a MORON man
Jellybean Bryant wrote:
Wait. 3 out of 15 races is a lot when 0 out of 15 races is the correct answer. It's also possible that he could've dropped out in some of those races. It takes a lot for me to be sympathetic to a Russian road racer but I'm there.
OK, here's what you've all been looking for.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aurNLEOingQ&feature=fvw
As the video starts, Sisay is in the lead pack (if you watch segment 1 he's there too, but that's about all there is to see there), but keep watching.
About 25 seconds in (which is around 2 miles into the race) you'll see him slowly drift off the back and slow to a complete jog. At about 45 seconds in you can see Sisay shuffling along next to the median. But keep watching.
At about 2:53, the overhead camera will catch the first two women coming though, and a very kind and considerate Sisay can be seen handing Gebre a water bottle that he picked up during his jog.
Now, lets pick it up at the finish.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzOmqec-lc8&feature=related
At around 6:35 the Sisay valiantly leads Gebre onto the field - and is polite enough to dodge the finish tape for her, but his manner makes it pretty clear what is was doing.
From what I've heard they did pretty much the same thing at Wharf to Wharf, but Sisay dropped out near the finish, only to find out later that he'd been caught on video and they were read the riot act, but no DQ. Anyone else know about this? According to the other poster, this seems to have also been their strategy at Big Sur.
Now, I think that when this first started, Sisay's intent was probably to go out with the elite men, and if he felt he could finish well, he'd stay with them. If not, he'd do what he can be seen doing on the video (I'm pretty certain Crazy8s was the first time they did this, they're well spaced in all earlier results where they run in the same race. ) I noticed it when watching the video and I was like "wait, was that guy pacing the lady?" I went back and watched the first segment and saw that he went out with the lead pack - so I got curious about how he went from lead pack to lady's pacemaker, so I watched it a little more closely. I got curious and went digging for results to see if they did it again, and then heard a buddy describe the events he saw at Wharf to Wharf and thought "oh yeah, that's the same thing I saw on the Crazy8's video."
And I wanted to make clear that I don't think a ban is even close to appropriate, but Mr. RaceDirector, if they happen to show up at your event together, a word of warning would probably a good idea, and you might not want to pay Sisay's travel or lodging $$$ until you see if he actually races the whole distance. This video will probably get half of you guys steamed and the other half will wonder what's the fuss about, but I thought it was interesting since I'd noticed it when just watching the Crazy8s coverage back in the summer and then heard that from my friend about Wharf to Wharf.
You might want to read this thread from just a month ago.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=3785984&thread=3785652
3rd time's a charm.
silly old fossil wrote:
Or try this.
http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?thread=3785652
Something odd about this messageboard when you click on a link to another thread.
However, if you open up a new window or tab, them manually copy + paste the link it works.
Now you got something...
Although i don't think its much ... when you consider the number of races they have run.
I think most of it is jelousy. You can't beat them as runners so you are trying to find other faults.
Instead of spending time on you tube. Do some training.
Just a suggestion.
I did have them in a race in 09 and they both raced well.
Race Director - when you constantly resort to insults and accusations it reflects more on you than the person you are trying to insult.
You found THREE times where it was obvious Sisay paced Gebre. Then there was Honolulu. In other races Sisay dropped out (i.e. like he did in Honolulu). Someone else mentioned Wharf to Wharf, and I believe that is correct.
I certainly can't beat Sisay in a race. Gebre would not be close to me, and neither would you. Is that relevant to anything? I don't think so - so why do you dwell on it?
Is it only cheating if someone cheats in only 50% of their races or more? Where do you come up with that logic?
As I said - Gebre and Sisay are both VERY nice people. I'd invite them into my home in a heartbeat. That doesn't mean that I condone what they do with regards to the pacing. I'm not sure why it is so hard for you to understand the distinction.
Regarding jealousy - not at all. I mean, I would love to make a living from running, but I also know Gebre would rather make a living doing what I do. The grass is always greener on the other side.
Finally, if you had a daughter, friend, or athlete who had been beaten by Gebre in a race where the pacing was significant (i.e. Honolulu or Crazy 8's) then you would be on the other side of the fence. Try to think objectively. It's usually more productive than flinging around unfounded and baseless insults and accusations.
By the way - you're logic was also flawed. One of the times they were explicitly warned was BEFORE a race, and at that particular race they did not end up running together.