Marrow2000 wrote:
I think FM is a much better, stronger team than Saratoga '04. Probably the biggest reason is: NXN now is even more competitive than it was just six years ago, yet FM blew everyone away by posting a ridiculously low winning score.
That says a LOT.
I'll agree that the top end talent in the race on an individual level is far deeper, but what evidence do you have that the teams are deeper?
I know speed ratings aren't an exact science but I think looking at this should clear up the debate.
when will you guys learn that speed ratings are not the end all be all? JEEZ. Lay off it. themanontherun, you're the biggest speed ratings bitch of them all.
Like I said, I realize they're not an exact science. But this is a debate. And if you don't have a point of reference to compare performances then you don't have much of a debate and speed ratings provide that. FWIW though, speed ratings have proven to be pretty damn accurate.
I think Saratoga '04 is better for one main reason: they beat one of the top-10 ever XC teams in my opinion (one with 2 FL Finalists from '04 and one from '03 on the same team-Kaltenback, Sammons, and Schulz) by 74 points. NXN is better now, but not much better than that year, with Yankton as well having multiple FL Finalists ( I know Kavan made it and maybe the Bies girl a year later). Saratoga ran all over those teams that year. I doubt FM would have scored better than 51 pts that year against those teams. I am a big fan of the FM teams, however.
Aging isn't always an advantage in girls running.
Montesquieu wrote:
F-M has there top four back next year.
Also note that '04 Toga packed their top 4 around the eventual Footlocker champion, Aislynn Ryan.
How many Olympic Medals and IAAF Outdoor Medals have graduates won ?
The original posting was misleading. It should have referred to the best "girls" team. As good as they are, I don't see the F-M girls team beating any good boys teams.
If the coach were putting the team at such risk, and actually harming them, then they just would not be any good. The proof that he is not is that they are achieving great things. You cannot achieve squat if you are injured.
Best HS team EVER!!?!! You're forgetting the the Fall of 1942 boy-harriers at General Anthony Wayne High School. The English Bulldogs had one of the most epic cross country campaigns ever!! They defeated their arch, cross-town, parochial-school rivals (and eventual State single-A champions) St. Pius X High School 27-28 in the one of the most historic dual meets this side of the Mississippi River!!! Then they went on to score a record low 18 points at their sectional meet, and took it all the way to State where they won the Double-A race 47 to 87 over the hugely favored Lakeland High School Flying Dutchmen!!!
Senior Team Captain Rickie Dunbar also won the individual title by over 45sec. The next day he gave up a full athletic scholarship and rescinded his commitment to run for Wichita State, dropped out of school, and joined the Navy, to fight in the Second Great War. He went on to eventually be awarded the Purple Heart, the Medal of Valor, and was promoted to the Rank of Captain. However, he never made it home, being shot down over the the Sea of Japan.
5th-man, little freshman Mattie Haxton, was the real hero on that fateful day at State in 1942. Having missed most of the season due to a bout of consumption, He wasn't even expected to score, yet with a mile to go, and the English Bulldogs behind the Flying Dutchmen, he rallied himself to move up from 145th place to 59th!!! passing Lakeland's 5th, 6th, and 7th men!!
Now, THAT was the best HS team ever!!!!
Top Girls Team All-Time
1) FM 2010
2) Saratoga 2004
3) Saugus 2010
4) FM 2009
5) FM 2008
6) Saugus 2008
Oregonfan wrote:
Top Girls Team All-Time
1) FM 2010
2) Saratoga 2004
3) Saugus 2010
4) FM 2009
5) FM 2008
6) Saugus 2008
A master troll has arrived.
reality check. wrote:
Three letters for you:
E.P.O.
If anybody ever tried to dope an entire high school team, most of the athletes would refuse to go along with it and several would probably blow the whistle. Unless they were receiving drugged sports drinks or bottles of supplements with "Vitamin C" on the labels but PEDs inside or getting rubdowns with PED-laced massage creams, it would be nearly impossible to keep an ongoing, organized drug program under wraps at a high school.
Saugus 2010 over FM 2009? thats a joke right? explain that one to me. Many people believed FM 2009 was the greatest team of all time last year along with Saratoga 2004. FM 2008 and FM 2009 are both better then Saugus 2010.
As far as FM 2010 and Saratoga 2004, thats tough. Saratoga has the up front advantage. Interesting matchup.
Anyone who suggests FM 2010 is better than Saratoga 2004 simply doesn't understand the facts. The short sighted bias on this thread is ridiculous. Look at the Footlocker NE results from 2004 and the rest of Saratoga's races from that year.
Saratoga easily could have put 4 in before FM's number 2 and their 5th would be in front of FM's 5th. Both teams run well against each other at NXN, 'Toga wins 30 to 50.
Oregonfan wrote:
Top Girls Team All-Time
1) FM 2010
2) Saratoga 2004
3) Saugus 2010
4) FM 2009
5) FM 2008
6) Saugus 2008
Gotta be a joke.
Etonic Jepirate wrote:
Oregonfan wrote:Top Girls Team All-Time
1) FM 2010
2) Saratoga 2004
3) Saugus 2010
4) FM 2009
5) FM 2008
6) Saugus 2008
Gotta be a joke.
Definitely. Saugus' "outstanding" performance at states, would landed their number one runner...
Behind FM 09's 5th runner! lol. I'm sry, but did Saugus '10 sweep the TOP FIVE SPOTS at states?!?! End of discussion.
Well atleast that part of it.
That's great they had an incredible top 4, too bad this is about the greatest TEAM ever. Last time I checked, a team consists of 7 girls and 5 scorers.
fetzer wrote:
Anyone who suggests FM 2010 is better than Saratoga 2004 simply doesn't understand the facts. The short sighted bias on this thread is ridiculous. Look at the Footlocker NE results from 2004 and the rest of Saratoga's races from that year.
Saratoga easily could have put 4 in before FM's number 2 and their 5th would be in front of FM's 5th. Both teams run well against each other at NXN, 'Toga wins 30 to 50.
The FM girls were pretty close to Aisling Cuffe all season.. Cuffe obviously ran very well at Footlocker, but the FM girls could've put 3, possibly 4 girls in Footlocker this year, with their 5th (Chapman) not too far behind, running sub-par compared to her previous years. Rutledge, who was not always the best runner for FM, was only 3 seconds away from the second place girl at Footlocker
MANHATTAN, 18 sec away
1 Aisling Cuffe 12 Cornwall 13:58.14 158.8 159
2 Jillian Fanning 10 Fayetteville-Man 14:16.08 152.5 152
NY STATES (different races) 12 sec away
1 1 Aisling Cuffe SR 1 Cornwall 17:19.6 5:36 162.5 162
1 1 Christie Rutledge JR 1 Fayetteville-Manlius 17:31.0 5:40 158.7 159
2 2 Jillian Fanning SO 1 Fayetteville-Manlius 17:46.1 5:44 153.6 154