Loki wrote:
Just goes to show that you can't tell much about form just by looking. Ain't no one gonna run 15:20 on Holmdel (probably worth ~14:20 on the track) with horrendous form.
True. I ran sub 16 on a fast street course and couldn't break 17 flat at holmdel.
blackirish wrote:
F***tard, this isn't the STATE meet, this is the NJ MOC. Not just a F***ing section or division subsuming a fraction of a percentage of the state's runners. This encompassed all of NJ's ridiculously meshed around gene pool.
It's the state meet homey. You can call it something else, but if it's the best teams and individuals from all over the state, it's the state meet.
CBA is the greatest high school XC program in the history of America.
XCWildcard wrote:
Why does the coach matter? More importantly, does the success or failure of a program a reflection of the coach whom leads that program? I will submit that the success of a cross-country or any athletic program is a direct reflection of the coach who leads that program.
Look at any league in the nation to see a microcosm of this issue. Within every league there are consistently programs year-in and year-out at the top and at the bottom. Consistently these positions do not change. What is the common denominator? The Coach.
Take the singlet off, walk across the street and kids are kids. The difference is in ones willingness to work harder than the other. The same could be said for the coach, give him a whistle, give him a group of equal kids and within months the "fruits of their labors" will be self evident. Effort and hard work always wins over "talent" and luck.
I would petition that teams competing at Nike Cross Nationals have great coaching. The coaches desire to win, to be the best, to accept nothing but individual excellence is paramount to the dominance locally and nationally. Take these coaches and place them on any other cellar dweller and it won't be long until that team wins. Thus why NFL, MLB, NBA, even running athletes seek out coaches to turn the tide. Likewise, take a cellar dweller coach and put them on a great team and it won't be long until they become a reflection of that coach.
A coach is either the weakest man on the team or the strongest and all those associated with his passion are extensions of his philosophy.
The question remains, are you a weak coach or a strong coach, will you instill weakness and mediocrity in your young men and woman or strength and excellence? Are you a coach who is willing to strive to be excellent in ALL things...tenure does not equal coaching knowledge or prowess.
At the end of the day, kids want to win, in the right way. Teachers teach, coaches coach. The team in last looks at the team in first and wishes that were them. The team at home watching NXN wishes they were there. Sacrifice, determination, excellence are demanded of Coaches just as they are the athletes whom they inspire. It is my declaration that there is one common denominator between teams at the bottom and teams at the top...the coach. As Marc Bloom states, It's all about the coach!
I would like to congratulate all the Amazing coaches in America and those who are striving to be great coaches, who inspire young men and women through winning state titles and national championships. Let the chatter and banter begin. It's ALL about the coach.
"It is not the critic who counts, not the one who points out how the strong man stumbled or how the doer of deeds might have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred with sweat and dust and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, if he wins, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt, 1910 speech "Man In The Arena"
Get over yourself. Despite the fact that it took you a long time to write, that passage said little of substance. Everyone can agree that coaching matters but the greatest coaches are those who do not need praise and deflect what praise they receive where it belongs, on the athletes.
CBA is a very very good program..they benefit greatly from proximity to Holmdel Park---Holmdel is a course where going out conservatively is the key---you only gain the confidence to do so through experience---I was at the Holmdel 1 mile mark at MOC----all CBA guys, including Mazz, were back further than you would have thought--i also know from personal experience, having run the course in an incorrect out hard fashion in the 80's----out hard does not work------i ran sub 915 but never got below 1630 at holmdel--key there is out conservatively and CBA executed perfectly + perfect weather = course record average-----I also still run and have run the course recently and the course is at least 10 seconds faster than it used to be be before the paving/pathing---nonetheless a great performance and the best team clearly won-- but i think they will not duplicate at NXN--"home court" at Holmdel is worth a lot
Bennett is probably sad to see this discussion. He practically worships Heath and would never want to steal his thunder. If anything, Bennett is working his ass off to be of help to Heath in any way possible. There is a lot of respect there.
Bennett is one of the nicest guys in the world. Honestly, I think he actually holds that title. "Nicest guy in the world" = Chris Bennett.
As someone NOT from NJ who was sick of hearing about this course, I once made a trip up there to give it a time trial run. The course is hard. 16:00 on this course is impressive for highschoolers.
Now stop this argument and start talking about the kids, they are the ones who ran.
What's the recipe for success?
sub2half wrote:
Dr.S wrote:Yeah, I saw that also... Did they water down the Holmdel course somehow (better footing, wider paths?) or have the state's runners just stepped up that much? <16 could have won MOC consistently quite a few years back, and <16:10 should be a top 5 finish.
If nothing has changed, WOW, the state is ridiculously strong right now.
..nothing has changed. New Jersey has just really stepped up recently.
BULL!!! The course is WAY faster! Kids are running times left and right that only the 1 or 2 would run every couple of years in the past! DeJoseph's record lasted forever and he was consider by many to be the best XC runner ever, now he's a footnote!
The course is faster!
They put in escalators!
I know it's apples and oranges, but for those of us who are unfamiliar with the course, and to help put this achievement in perspective, what would this look like in terms of 3200m times on the track... *roughly* ????
I know, it's a problematic estimate... just curious
Thanks.
doesn'tmatter wrote:
BULL!!! The course is WAY faster! Kids are running times left and right that only the 1 or 2 would run every couple of years in the past! DeJoseph's record lasted forever and he was consider by many to be the best XC runner ever, now he's a footnote!
The course is faster!
On a good day, the course is 10-15 seconds faster MAX. In bad conditions, it runs much faster. This doesn't account for the across the board improvement we're seeing in NJ, and it definitely doesn't account for the big step up we're seeing in track. Used to be that you'd be winning outdoor MOC with a sub-9:10 or a sub-4:15. That wouldn't even get you top 5. In fact, last year there were 4:15 guys who didn't even make it to the MOC last year.
Joe Rosa's 14:56 is superior to JDJ's 15:16. Maybe not 20 seconds better, but I'd give it 10.
Used to be that breaking 16 minutes would get you top 2-3 at NJ NOC, if not the win. Now, you have to run mid-15 to be top 5.
To chalk this up to the course being faster is pretty unfair to the kids and coaches who bust their asses to make this happen.
People more familiar with the course and the runners on it might be a bit more accurate than myself, but I think a 16:30 is somewhere around a 9:30 for the 3200. Normally, if you get under one, you have a good chance to get under the other.
Judging by when me and my teammates ran their, I would say 16 is close to 9:25-9:30.
T-man wrote:
On a good day, the course is 10-15 seconds faster MAX. In bad conditions, it runs much faster. This doesn't account for the across the board improvement we're seeing in NJ, and it definitely doesn't account for the big step up we're seeing in track. Used to be that you'd be winning outdoor MOC with a sub-9:10 or a sub-4:15. That wouldn't even get you top 5. In fact, last year there were 4:15 guys who didn't even make it to the MOC last year.
Joe Rosa's 14:56 is superior to JDJ's 15:16. Maybe not 20 seconds better, but I'd give it 10.
Used to be that breaking 16 minutes would get you top 2-3 at NJ NOC, if not the win. Now, you have to run mid-15 to be top 5.
To chalk this up to the course being faster is pretty unfair to the kids and coaches who bust their asses to make this happen.
Bingo.
Here are the credentials of the top guys in the race: (1600/3200 times, sorry I don't convert)
1. Jim Rosa: 4:07/8:51
2. Mike Mazzacarro 4:09/9:02
3. Jeremy Elkaim 4:12/8:46
4. Matt McDonald 4:20/9:20
5. Morgan Pearson 4:19/9:06
6. Ben Potts 4:14/9:30
7. Patrick Rono 4:14/9:26
No slouches in that group.
Heck, there are two guys who have run under 4:12 who didn't even make the top 15.
Tired Of New Jersey wrote:
Get over yourselves, Holmdel is nothing, as your the lackluster performance of the Rosas at a weak NXN last year showed.
You're a joke. I couldn't care less how the Rosas do at NXN- NXN is a joke of a meet and it's bad for high school cross country.
Where are the graduating seniors from CBA heading next fall?
LS Lion wrote:
Where are the graduating seniors from CBA heading next fall?
Mazzacarro to Princeton
Mykityshyn to UNC
they are never good, just hyped.
Overrated is one word.
In defense of Liberty wrote:
LS Lion wrote:Where are the graduating seniors from CBA heading next fall?
Mazzacarro to Princeton
Mykityshyn to UNC
Hopefully these schools end up producing good situations. It's about time another CBA guy went on to produce big at the next level.