Alan Webb 800m this Saturday

I thought Webb died

1:47.14

BrynR wrote:

Might also be worth considering what his PB was before that 1:43?

Guy took a chunk off when he ran that. He wasn't really an 800 guy at all - that time was probably more suprising from him than his AR in the mile.

Anyone know if he's actually running? Tempted to head up and watch as it's only about half an hour travel...

It's a fair point, I believe his best before was 1:45.8 that same season, though it may have come after. but as you said he wasn't an 800 guy. It's hard to know exactly what kind of work he was doing in 2007 (1:43/3:30/3:46) considering what he had run for 10,000 (27:34) the year before, but my guess is he was well into his speed work when he hit 1:43 which obviously isn't the case right now. Should be noted that his top times ever outside of 1:43.8 are that 1:45.8 from the same season, and then a 1:46.0 in 2006 and then several 1:46 and 1:47 races.

Considering where Lagat got to with 1:46 I kind of doubt Salazar cares too much about getting Webb back down to 1:43. A 1:44high or 1:45 should be enough to get the job done when he is at 100% and I really hope they operate from a strength perspective that doesn't rule out 5000.

This is a guy who won club nationals in cross, won the penn relay 5000, has run 8:11 for two miles, 27:34 and in one of his only 5000s ran 13:10 (as a 22 year old).

Probably 1:48-1:49.

At least he won't be demo'ing his bench-press prowess before races any more.

If anyone can turn this guy's career around, it's Salazar. The biggest mistake Webb made was to stick with that fat ball of goo who calls himself a coach.

In light of recent workout times, I am changing my prediction: 1:39.

The only way Webb runs 1:39 is if that's when he stops and pulls a DNF. How many meters will he have run at 1:39 into the race? My prediction is 715m.

mrr83.5 wrote:You are right, falling 4000m into a race and starting a race are not the same thing, your muscles might be fatigued but you are completely warmed up, as opposed to starting a race where you are warmed up but not as hot as you would be while racing. The point is, getting up and running after falling does not cause physical injury (mikey's claim), mostly psychological.

Oh yea, I did not run 25 min. for 8k, more like 23:20 for 5 miles.

You are very ignorant to the world of running. Warmed up? Are you sure you've ever run a race? I don't think you understand the issue at all. Going from a dead stop after being all out, that far into a race is brutal. I've watched many professional races where people just completely fall apart or end up injured.

Also when you fall, quite often you have no idea if you've injured yourself, strained something, pulled something, etc, until you've started running again, or until after the race.

I was at Umich during the time of the incident that Mrr82 mentions. Brannen fell, got back up and ran a courageous race, but paid the price. If he had not sprinted that race home after falling, he would not have made his injury as bad as it was. But at least that was a championship race and worth something.

Rupp's race was for time, and time alone. He lost that goal when he tripped, and risked injury by continuing. Providing nothing is on the line in the race, you're better off playing it safe and making sure you're ok. It has nothing to do with forming habits.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand. You clearly are just being a complete arshole because you hate the thought of Mrr82 being right. Please get over it, and don't let things like that bias your responses.

1:48/49 not FTW

Name calling aside, not sure mrr83.5 comments warrant such a strong condemnation. Dropping out of a race can set your confidence back in a real way. If your confidence is fragile perhaps it is better to finish. I finished all my races b/c I wanted to teach myself never to give up no matter how bad I felt.

I am sure Rupp had good reason to drop out. His race was for time and after he fell it was up to him whether he had it in him to jump back on pace. He decided not to. He knows better than any of us whether that was a good decision. We are all just armchair coaches on this with poorly informed opinions. So chill out.

Calm down wrote:

Name calling aside, not sure mrr83.5 comments warrant such a strong condemnation. Dropping out of a race can set your confidence back in a real way. If your confidence is fragile perhaps it is better to finish. I finished all my races b/c I wanted to teach myself never to give up no matter how bad I felt..

There's a huge difference between dropping out of a race because you give up, or because you fell. One can hurt your confidence, the other, not really at all. I've never heard of sommeone losing their confidence, because they dropped out after falling to a track late in a race. They might get a bit more timid during a race (but not finishing or finishing doesn't change that).

I think most of the comment was towards mrr83.5 comparing the start of a race, to falling 4000 meters into an all out 5k race and then going again. That was one of the worst comparisons i've ever read on letsrun, and i've read a lot of bad ones. So i have to disagree that his comments "don't warrant such strong condemnation". I mean who would ever make that connection between the two situations? You'd have to be a 400 pound hammer thrower or something to not understand. I'd say javelin thrower, but as we've seen that's been proven to not work, since Mrr82 grasped the easy concept that Mrr83.5 failed to understand.

That said, it's confusing writing a post commenting on Mrr82 and Mrr83.5.

You are very ignorant to the world of running. Warmed up? Are you sure you've ever run a race? I don't think you understand the issue at all. Going from a dead stop after being all out, that far into a race is brutal. I've watched many professional races where people just completely fall apart or end up injured.

Also when you fall, quite often you have no idea if you've injured yourself, strained something, pulled something, etc, until you've started running again, or until after the race.

I was at Umich during the time of the incident that Mrr82 mentions. Brannen fell, got back up and ran a courageous race, but paid the price. If he had not sprinted that race home after falling, he would not have made his injury as bad as it was. But at least that was a championship race and worth something.

Rupp's race was for time, and time alone. He lost that goal when he tripped, and risked injury by continuing. Providing nothing is on the line in the race, you're better off playing it safe and making sure you're ok. It has nothing to do with forming habits.

Not sure why this is so hard to understand. You clearly are just being a complete arshole because you hate the thought of Mrr82 being right. Please get over it, and don't let things like that bias your responses.[/quote]

Dude (or Mike) I do understand, if you have to go all the way back to Brannen falling to prove your point then it is a weak point, hundreds of people have fallen in races since (Shalane Flanagan at this years USATF 1500, she got up and finished, uninjured), happens all the time.

If you wanna go way back to a Michigan example, how about Gordon Minty and NCAA xc, fell early got back up to finish second (uninjured, good thing he didn't just walk away)

People get tripped, people get spiked, get up and give it your best, isn't that what it's all about anyways, make yourself proud. Finish what you start, there are only so many races that one can run in a career, it doesn't go on forever, you never know what might happen tomorrow or the next day.

I sure as hell hope Webb isn't really doing 6x800 in 2:13...

As a 1:43/13:10 guy he should be able to bust out 2:00s all day. SO I would hope now he could at least manage sub 2:10s

mrr83.5 wrote:Dude (or Mike) I do understand, if you have to go all the way back to Brannen falling to prove your point then it is a weak point, hundreds of people have fallen in races since (Shalane Flanagan at this years USATF 1500, she got up and finished, uninjured), happens all the time.

If you wanna go way back to a Michigan example, how about Gordon Minty and NCAA xc, fell early got back up to finish second (uninjured, good thing he didn't just walk away)

You seem to fail to grasp any concept thrown at you. You cite championship races, which Mrr82 acknowledged should be treated differently. The goal in a championship race is to finish high/win, as it's what your whole season has led up too. Rupp fell 4000 meters into a huge PR paced Time trial, onto a track. What part don't you understand?

And why would you comment on a XC race where someone fell early? Again, you fail to grasp the concept on multiple levels.

No matter what happens this weekend, it would be cool to see Alan start focusing on the 5000 at this point in his career. If Webb can get back on track, consider our 5000m squad in 2012 consisting of Ritz, Solinsky, and Webb. Surely we could get a medal out of that crew.

mrr83.5 wrote:

Dude (or Mike) I do understand, if you have to go all the way back to Brannen falling to prove your point then it is a weak point, hundreds of people have fallen in races since (Shalane Flanagan at this years USATF 1500, she got up and finished, uninjured), happens all the time.

If you wanna go way back to a Michigan example, how about Gordon Minty and NCAA xc, fell early got back up to finish second (uninjured, good thing he didn't just walk away)

People get tripped, people get spiked, get up and give it your best, isn't that what it's all about anyways, make yourself proud. Finish what you start, there are only so many races that one can run in a career, it doesn't go on forever, you never know what might happen tomorrow or the next day.

Those are both championship related instenses...I think you're still missing the point. What benefit is there to finishing this race that outways not finishing? Finish the race with a wasted effort or conserve the energy for the next time.

There are no medals to contend for and you know you're going to get another shot soon. Maybe he thought he was going to be DQ'd? Maybe finishing the race would have been discouraging for him?

Keep in mind the difference between racing for place and racing for time are two completely different races...and even strategies. You wont get a chance to medal in a race your trying to place in until the next year but racing for a time allows you the chance to repeat if you fail.

To be clear, this doesn't give an excuse to just be a pussy and DNF because you feel like it...I think that has a much worse influence on your psyche. Taking a bad fall in a race where all you're trying to do is to get a certain time is quite unfortunate and I can see more reason for not finishing.

But we have no idea what Rupp's head is like right now. I would be willing to bet he's more confident than not tho. There is no doubt he was looking good at 4000 and it's too bad he wen't down like that. Who knows, maybe he wouldn't have gone under 13...no one will really know the answer to that.

What we do know is he left things unfinished on the track, which, hopefully, will give him more encouragement to get under 13.

The point that Mikey made was that getting up after a fall and resuming running would lead to injury, I don't believe that to be true and I gave a couple of examples.

I guess they should have a section dealing with this issue at the USATF level II course, I've done 2 of them, endurance and sprints and don't recall this issue being addressed.

it's worth remembering that his HS PR was 1:47.74, look for him to at least be under that

Agreed on all points. As far as where Rupp's head/confidence is at coming out of that race/fall/dnf look at :50 into the interview:

I think that sums it up. He knows where he stands, the DNF doesn't seem to be an issue for him given the circumstances.

it's worth remembering that his HS PR was 1:47.74, look for him to at least be under that[/quote]

He also ran 3:53.43 in high school!! You think he can go out there and run that now too?