So maybe Bob Kennedy wasn't so great after all.

I have watched many of Kennedy's old races in the world championships and olympics. He never really was in the mix on the last lap. He did not have the kick to compete.

Yes, he was the lone American in those competitions. But let's not exagerate his accomplishments. He did take the lead in the 96 olympics but was passed by several runners before the last lap even began.

As good as he was at 3k and 5k, he was a complete failure when he moved up to 10k with a best of only 27:39. His one marathon was a dnf.

The only reason I bring this up is to not to knock Kennedy but to praise Solinsky. It is a staggering achievement. Not even Dieter Bauman came close to breaking 27 minutes and Bauman won an olympic gold, a silver, and ran 12:54.

You do know Dieter Bauman was busted for doping, right?

and yes, Solinsky's 10k is a staggering achievement.

".....in the mix.." You must be from Flotrack. Were you the D bag yelling at everyone on the back of the golf cart during the Puma mile?

Worst thread title ever. Throw any name up there and LetsRun will tear it right down. The dude's name is everywhere on all time lists for the US, yet somehow he still sucks on this thread. Truly unbelievable.

Kennedy displays the normal curve of most sub 13:00 runners. That is the PR mark and several marks within 10 seconds of that PR. Not the OTC and Salazar pattern of several years of +13:20 and then bam, 12:56 and 26:59. That is called the WADA suspect numero uno curve.

bladerunner wrote:

Yes, he was the lone American in those competitions. But let's not exagerate his accomplishments. He did take the lead in the 96 olympics but was passed by several runners before the last lap even began.

As good as he was at 3k and 5k, he was a complete failure when he moved up to 10k with a best of only 27:39. His one marathon was a dnf.

Kennedy ran the 10k later in his career after he was in a car accident and had back troubles. Same thing with the marathon. To let his lack of success at the 10k and marathon detract from his career is crazy.

I just looked up the TFN World rankings. Kennedy was only world ranked twice. In 1994, he was #4 and in 1996, he was #6. In 1994, he was one spot ahead of Haile G. Pretty impressive.

And whoever said Kennedy was running sub 13's when that got you back of the pack was wrong. The huge explosion of times was in 96, but really 97 and after when Kennedy wasn't ranked. I'd like to know how many people had gone sub 13 when Kennedy did it in mid 1996. Not many. Definitely not 30+ guys like in Solinsky's case.

Men's 5000m. Final. Olympic Games 1996

1. Venuste Niyongabo BUR 13: 07.96

2. Paul Bitok KEN 13: 08.16

3. Khalid Boulami MOR 13: 08.37

4. Dieter Baumann GER 13: 08.81

5. Tom Nyariki KEN 13: 12.29

6. Bob Kennedy USA 13: 12.35

7. Enrique Molina ESP 13: 12.91

8. Brahim Lahlafi MOR 13: 13.26

Niyongabo PRs 3:46

Bitok PRs 12:58 3:31

Boulami PRs 12:53 7:30

Baumann PRs 12:54 7:30 3:51 drug cheat

Nyariki PRs 12:55 7:27

Kennedy PRs 12:58 7:30 3:56

Molina PRs 13:07 7:32 not so good

Lahlafi PRs 12:49 7:28

To lose to those guys in a slower race is pretty good.

Kennedy's first sub 13 he was second to Komen

In his 7:30 he was 8th but in his other two 7:31s he was 2nd and 3rd and pushed the pace in both. In his 2nd place finish Komen beat him by a second. Komen beat him easily in one and Boulami beat him by a few tenths.

Hopefully someday someone will put video of Kennedy's other race up, since all you get to see is the 96 olympics.

They are amazing.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOL....malmo....I'm pissing myself......

wejo wrote:

And whoever said Kennedy was running sub 13's when that got you back of the pack was wrong. The huge explosion of times was in 96, but really 97 and after when Kennedy wasn't ranked. I'd like to know how many people had gone sub 13 when Kennedy did it in mid 1996. Not many. Definitely not 30+ guys like in Solinsky's case.

Slow down there. In 1996 there were 10 sub 13 5000m runners. In 2010 there were 15.

logs upon logs wrote:

Now that we have at least 4 white guys currently running who could beat his old record.

Humour me. Who are the four?

In 2004 he finally came back around after struggling for several years from a car accident and Thyroid problems. I saw him in his first race in a long time at Mt. Sac 5K run a 13:27 and it looked like a tempo run and everyone was content to let him set the pace. As usual, his kick was lacking, but he clearly was not working on rapid turnover in mid April. He was focused on the 10K and ran 27:37? at Stanford. Ritz hung on to him for dear life and got a College Record by finishing close. Kennedy was focused on later in the summer including the OTs in Sacramento. There I watched the 10,000 and it was a burner with 4 guys fighting for 3 spots (Meb, Abdi, Dan Browne, Kennedy). Unfortunately, BK had hurt his Achilles tendon a week before and dropped out with pain. The race suddenly was a 3 man race for 3 spots. Meb and Abdi pushed on and DB fell off the pace almost instantly having locked up his spot. Meb went on to a Championship Record of ~27:35.

Supposedly Kennedy had hurt it during mile repeats of 4:0x. Had he not hurt his Achilles, he would probably have had the AR that summer and I think sub 27 was not out of the question. He got healthy enough to be recruited to the NYC Mar, but had lost a good bit of base with time off, so the DNF is not that surprising.

a good read:

http://www.mensracing.com/athletes/interviews/2006/bobkennedy030706.htm

2004observerRunDMC wrote:

Had he not hurt his Achilles, he would probably have had the AR that summer and I think sub 27 was not out of the question. He got healthy enough to be recruited to the NYC Mar, but had lost a good bit of base with time off, so the DNF is not that surprising.

No way BK would have run sub 27 in 2004, after 1999 everything was over except the denial.

Kennedy could have broken 27:00 for 10k if he had bothered to actually try one in 1996 or 1997. Instead he waited until he was well past his prime in 2004 to make a series attempt at it.

Teg should learn from this. He should have run a 10k late last year or run Stanford.

Hell, if Ritz hadn't jumped in that 5000 right after Worlds he would still be a 13:20 guy. I wonder when we will see him get in a serious 5000 ever again.

Strike while the iron is hot

wejo wrote:

I'd like to know how many people had gone sub 13 when Kennedy did it in mid 1996. Not many. Definitely not 30+ guys like in Solinsky's case.

All-Time List at the end of 1996:

12:44.39 Haile Gebrselassie ETH Zürich 16 Aug 1995

12:45.09 Daniel Komen KEN Zürich 14 Aug 1996

12:50.80 Salah Hissou MAR Roma 05 Jun 1996

12:51.60 Daniel Komen Stockholm 08 Jul 1996

12:52.38 Daniel Komen Milano 07 Sep 1996

12:52.70 Haile Gebrselassie Zürich 14 Aug 1996

12:53.19 Haile Gebrselassie Berlin 01 Sep 1995

12:53.72 Philip Mosima KEN Roma 05 Jun 1996

12:54.72 Paul Tergat KEN Zürich 14 Aug 1996

12:54.83 Salah Hissou Milano 07 Sep 1996

12:54.85 Moses Kiptanui KEN Roma 05 Jun 1996

12:55.30 Moses Kiptanui Roma 08 Jun 1995

12:55.76 Khalid Boulami MAR Zürich 14 Aug 1996

12:55.93 Salah Hissou Paris 28 Jun 1996

12:56.15 Daniel Komen Roma 08 Jun 1995

12:56.96 Haile Gebrselassie Hengelo 04 Jun 1994

12:57.23 Worku Bikila ETH Roma 08 Jun 1995

12:58.21 Bob Kennedy USA Zürich 14 Aug 1996

12:58.39 Saïd Aouita MAR Roma 22 Jul 1987

12:58.75 Bob Kennedy Stockholm 06 Jul 1996

12:58.99 Ismaïl Sghyr FRA Zürich 14 Aug 1996

12:59.19 Tom Nyariki KEN Roma 05 Jun 1996

Up to that point in history there were 22 Sub-13's by 12 individuals. The individuals other than Kennedy to run sub-13 multiple times? Gebrselassie, Komen, Hissou and Kiptanui. That's about as elite company as you can get.

Do you have any idea what the weather was like during the '96 trials? I do - it was brutally hot and humid. While I'll grant you that the final was slow, there were some pretty good people in that race that deserve better than a collective disgraceful label.

That's right, and it was brutally hot and humid in the Trial 5000 final. My recollection is that Reina tried to go with BK, and was broken about mid way. It also was quite warm and humid the night of the Olympic 5K final. Kennedy was fantastic in that race. He didn't have the wheels to stay close to Niyangabo, Bitok, and Baumann over the last 300, but I don't think any U.S. runner today would either. Kennedy had outstanding results for a long period of time, but he also raised the bar for himself and others. Just look at his improvement from the Barcelona final (could not stay close to Bitok and Baumann and well gapped after a mile)to Atlanta.

logs upon logs wrote:

Now that we have at least 4 white guys currently running who could beat his old record.

Well, one of the white guys is Ritz. But who are the other three? Last I checked Kennedy was still the second fastest American ever at 5k?

And if Teg is involved then you can't be talking about a 10k.

He didn't say "have", he said "could". I take that to mean, have a realistic shot of bettering BK's time not a guarantee. So after Saturday and considering last season i would say Teg, Ritz, Rupp, and Solinsky realistically "could" beat his old record. With that said, there's no doubt BK is/was great.

[quote]The Saint wrote:

You do know Dieter Bauman was busted for doping, right?

Yes, I do know that. But he was busted in his late 30's, well after his best years were long gone. Are you saying that because he was busted that all of his medals are tainted? It's a fair point. But he did pass drug tests for many years and ran in 3 olympic games. I'm assuming he was clean then but I certainly wouldn't bet my life on it. I don't know the nature of drug testing back then. Were they tested out of competion? It's hard to imagine someone who ran as much as he did could pass those tests for all those years.

It was brutally hot for the 2008 Bejing Men's marathon. I would argue distances longer than 5k would be far more adversely affected by heat/humidity (especially marathon). That didn't stop the times from dipping below 2:06 and 2:07. If we want to look for excuses, I am sure we can find it. I wonder who amongst them even had the 'A' standard at that time (besides Bob).

[quote]sponge wrote:

That's right, and it was brutally hot and humid in the Trial 5000 final. My recollection is that Reina tried to go with BK, and was broken about mid way.

It also was quite warm and humid the night of the Olympic 5K final. Kennedy was fantastic in that race. He didn't have the wheels to stay close to Niyangabo, Bitok, and Baumann over the last 300, but I don't think any U.S. runner today would either. Kennedy had outstanding results for a long period of time, but he also raised the bar for himself and others. Just look at his improvement from the Barcelona final (could not stay close to Bitok and Baumann and well gapped after a mile)to Atlanta.