Dating someone who is not very smart

I think I just fell in love. Just kidding, good post though!

I'll take exception to the beer comment. There is a wider variety of beer than wine in the world, and a good beer connoisseur has just as exacting tastes as a wine connoisseur. And we also know what kinds of beers go with fine foods just like you know what kinds of wines go with the same foods. So, don't hate on us beer snobs because we like beer over wine. Having said that, if he's pulling out a Natty Light and the ketchup to go with the duck a l'orange you just made for him, dump him.

Not a bad person but... wrote:

I like to have nice dinners and enjoy a glass of wine. My date wants beer and covers the food with ketchup.

This is an excellent post. Dating someone who is markedly dumber than you is all about wanting to be superior -- either that or she's just super super hot, and in either case, it's a bad foundation for a lasting relationship.

Not a bad person but... wrote:

We have been dating for about 8 months. The physical connection is amazing. BUT, this person is not very smart, didn't attend college. I like to have nice dinners and enjoy a glass of wine. My date wants beer and covers the food with ketchup. When we talk, at first it was cute to hear the mispronounced words, now it annoys me. We get along well, don't fight, have this amazing physical connection but mentally are in a different world. Our family background is also totally opposite which concerns me. The best example I can think of is this person is like someone from the old show/movie "The Beverly Hillbillies" but again not a bad person at all in many other ways.

Suggestions?

What makes you think you are smarter? Use of ketchup, beer drinking, and pronounciation of words? That could be cultural.

I'm guessing you are not and that is why you are two are so comfortable with one another. Your concerns seem to reflect your perception of your mommies and daddies thoughts of your girl from the wrong side of the tracks.

Actually, I think she can do better.

I knew the OP sounded familiar:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=2694807&thread=2694567

I think it depends on how much "intellectualism" is going to pervade your life, and how many of your hobbies actually require intelligence.

I know smart people whose interests aren't very sophisticated. They may be rocket scientists at work, but in their personal lives, they're not well read except in their subject, they don't have a lot of opinions about politics, and have little interest in travel or cultural experiences. They often end up with a partner who couldn't even begin to intellectually comprehend their work and research, but it doesn't end up mattering a lot because they're the same at home.

I know other people who love to read and discuss their ideas. They feel connected to others by sharing their opinions about different issues. They probably aren't going to be happy with someone who doesn't have any ideas of their own, has too short an attention span to listen well, or can't share in their conversations with others.

Neither way is wrong.

This may not be fair, but when I see smart men who like smart conversation with stupid women, I suspect that they have a low opinion of women and also have low self-confidence, so they needed to enforce their worldview of "me smart, woman dumb".

One of the kindest, hottest guys I ever dated was dumb as a brick. I've never regretted breaking up with him.

average letsrunner wrote:

I knew the OP sounded familiar:

http://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=2694807&thread=2694567

shockingly similar <:0

sad if the person is still posting this 6 onths later

On the Grid wrote:

Yes, I bet these gorgeous women just swoon for you.

Everyone on this thread: please do not use the words "gorgeous" or "beautiful" or "hot." You may talk about looks versus smarts, but don't pretend that a single one of you can get with someone who meets the criteria for being objectively good looking. You're runners, for chrissakes.

I'm sure you've heard it before, but I'll say it anyway: There are stunningly good-looking women who have remarkably low standards for physical attractiveness in men. Self-loathing and low self-esteem, however, seem to be unattractive qualities to most women, and male distance runners seem to have those qualities in abundance. So while I tend to agree with your general observation with respect to male runners (I can't say I've noticed the same about female runners), I do wonder if it might be better for runners to stop beating themselves up about how scrawny and socially challenged they are. But that's just a thought that popped into my head; I could be totally wrong.

800 dude wrote:

p.s. Avocados, what did you think of the women at HLS?

Jennifer Granholm, who is now the governor of Michigan, was a knock-out in law school. I have pictures.

But if you're asking about my general views of women at HLS, I can't really say that I had any strong views. Obviously, they were very bright. I guess I found them to be, on the whole, sophisticated, pleasant, and attractive, but keep in mind that my perspective was one of a socially inept guy who went to an all-male prep school and M.I.T. when its male-female ratio was still rather high. I don't whether the football players from UCLA felt the same way.

frozen north wrote:

Just curious why you like gorgeous but not very bright women. Being honest, is it because they are gorgeous? Or because they are not very bright and that's cute? Or because they have other qualities and just happened to be gorgeous too? Are you not attracted to women that are gorgeous but also brilliant, or have you just not found any?

All fair questions. Certainly, their physical attractiveness has been at the center of it. I haven't been sure about whether their "not-very-brightness" has also been attractive to me. I have often thought that there could be a bargaining aspect to it -- e.g., brains in return for beauty, gravitas in return for charming whimsicality, that sort of thing. That's a very uncomfortable thought, but I think that it's important to acknowledge those dynamics in order to address them. Less distastefully, I think that lower levels of intelligence, education, and worldliness may bring out more of a caretaker quality in me, and I think that I tend to associate those traits with a certain type of innocence (which may be completely unwarranted). Others here have mentioned power issues. That doesn't really resonate with me, but maybe it's just that I don't think of it in those terms.

As for the choice between a brilliant beauty and a not-so-bright beauty, I think that I've moved away from the not-so-bright beauty, which I believe to be a very healthy move. But I still do think that the most important intellectual qualities are, for me, a shared sense of humor and a shared curiosity about the world, and I think that compatibility in those areas does not require a similar level of intelligence or formal education.

Anyway, those are some of my uncomfortably candid thoughts.

Voice of reason.... wrote:

Not a bad person but... wrote:

When we talk, at first it was cute to hear the mispronounced words, now it annoys me.

...

We get along well, don't fight, have this amazing physical connection but mentally are in a different world.

It will not work out long term.

1. It it's an annoyance now, it will only get more annoying over time.

2. "Physical connections" always fade.

If you're OK being in a relationship that won't last, then don't worry about it. Otherwise, it's time to bail.

The "Voice of Reason" is correct!

I wouldn't date someone for months without believing/hoping that it could turn into love, and I can't imagine falling in love with someone I don't admire. I almost feel bad to use the word “admire” as it is such a big word—like “artist”--but that's the closest I have to express my feeling. Now you can admire someone for different reasons, courage, strength, resilience, etc. For me it will have to be about someone's clear and elegant thinking.

One's life is a series of “components,” some trivial, some not--friends, colleagues, companion/home, workplace, vacation place, etc.-- that you can select, and edit if desired. The person I would let into my life/world will have to intrigue me, and perhaps, hopefully, expand my horizon. Whether they hold degrees of not*, I like people with intellectual curiosity, good with language, and with a sense of beauty. Integrity, drive, kindness, with a dash of doubt and helplessness.

*this thread made me realize that I only had serious relationships with people holding at least a master's degree, but I still believe it's not essential.

Avocados Number wrote:

I'm actually very interested in this subject.

what... little girls?

you need a personality that compliments the other.

if you want to see a messed up family - huband and wife are both PhDs. if you want to see another messed up family - husband and wife are both hard driving career oriented professionals.

have a friend and both he and his wife have education beyond undergrad - he needs a spouse who is not his intellectual equal. likely he needs a relaxed "hippie chick" - but chose a life of torment with an intelectual peer.

Avocados, thank you for sharing your "uncomfortably candid thoughts." As for beauty, I am not sure whether I think it's important/relevant to me anymore in relation to my romantic partners or myself. Younger, I was all about dressing well, looking good, etc., but now it's almost as if I have rebelled against it. I'm looking for simplicity and 'realness,' something like that.

Of course I might just change my mind tonight or tomorrow, and go on a date with someone just because of their looks.

Mother, don't drop your generalizations like they are fact. Just because your friend needs to feel superior to his wife does not mean that they are good for each other. In many cases I would think that the reverse is quite true and you have is gas backwards.

That said, I could not hang on long enough if I found a girl to be dumb. This is why I was not getting laid at all for a long time. Everyone needs someone who stimulates them intellectually and physically. There are different levels of stimulation for sure, there are many people who are intellectually stimulated by monster truck races etc.(I know there is a lot of engineering that goes into these things, but I wasn't talking about that). You need to find someone who you want to be around all the time, if your looking for a long term thing. If you are not committed to that and you just want to bump uglies, just know that you could make that woman crazy when you eventually leave her.

As long as we're using anecdotes, my sister and her husband are both PhDs, and they have one of the healthiest relationships I've ever seen.

The reason I asked about HLS was because I find it frustrating that it's so hard to know who's smart and who isn't. If you look around a crowded room at a bar or party, the only way you can discriminate is by looks. I think it would be very appealing to be in a dating pool in which every woman is intelligent and educated.

Here's a question for the other "snobs" like me: how would you feel about dating someone significantly more intelligent than you? (I suppose this isn't exactly the inverse situation, because if you're already pretty smart/educated, anyone who CLEARLY has a leg up on you would be in extremely rare company.)

Ah-ah, good question. I had different experiences with that.When I was 21, I dated someone who was smarter than me (and more cultured and knowledgeable), and felt intimidated and uncomfortable at times, but also inspired to learn new things and 'catch up.' If I was dating someone much more intelligent than me today, I feel that there is a risk I would not be able to establish a profound intimate connection, and that might be frustrating and unsatisfying for both of us.

800 dude wrote:

Here's a question for the other "snobs" like me: how would you feel about dating someone significantly more intelligent than you? (I suppose this isn't exactly the inverse situation, because if you're already pretty smart/educated, anyone who CLEARLY has a leg up on you would be in extremely rare company.)

Phds are some of the most screwed up people on the planet.