If you do anything one week later, that's 12/20 and folks won't like this as it's too close to Christmas.
There's a good idea to add a sweepstakes/open race to CA State to choose NXN teams. Let's say 10-15 teams. One from each Division and 5-10 at large. These teams give up State title, but get special award for making open race.
I'll throw a wrench into it. If the concern is weak regions, how about opening a limited number of entries from adjacent regions?
For example, a team in the tough NE region could enter the NY region instead. I know this could cause a lot of problems, but it would strengthen the weak regions immediately.
I'll throw a wrench into it. If the concern is weak regions, how about opening a limited number of entries from adjacent regions?
For example, a team in the tough NE region could enter the NY region instead. I know this could cause a lot of problems, but it would strengthen the weak regions immediately.
Not happening, especially after the NY region has been combined with the state Federation championship. The four entities within the Federation don’t agree on much, but they would be unanimous in opposing out-of-state participation in their championship.
We have the same conversation every year. The girls used to warrant their own region, now not so much (still a very solid state). The boys never did, but were just a byproduct. There are plenty of good solutions, but the fat cats at Nike will never change anything.
We have the same conversation every year. The girls used to warrant their own region, now not so much (still a very solid state). The boys never did, but were just a byproduct. There are plenty of good solutions, but the fat cats at Nike will never change anything.
You are wrong about the NY boys, when you say “never did”. NY boys finished 1-3 in 2005, and had 3 other teams (Liverpool, Shenendehowa, and Queensbury) who were likely top-10 at NTN but didn’t get consideration. If that’s not worthy of a region, then almost nobody’s worthy.
We have the same conversation every year. The girls used to warrant their own region, now not so much (still a very solid state). The boys never did, but were just a byproduct. There are plenty of good solutions, but the fat cats at Nike will never change anything.
You are wrong about the NY boys, when you say “never did”. NY boys finished 1-3 in 2005, and had 3 other teams (Liverpool, Shenendehowa, and Queensbury) who were likely top-10 at NTN but didn’t get consideration. If that’s not worthy of a region, then almost nobody’s worthy.
New York might be one of the weaker boys regions, but historically they haven't been that different than the other weaker regions (Southeast, Heartland and South). For all 4 of those have had years where they were good, and plenty of others where they weren't. All have had between 24-27 boys teams that have finished competitively (within 1 standard deviation of the median score that year) during the 16 seasons there have been regional races; the Heartland and Southeast actually drop off when only looking at the # of top-half finishes, though, so historically I think it's fair to say the NY boys have been better than both of those regions.
My bigger issue is it being a single-state region that draws a smaller field for their championship races.
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Combining NY and NE is any obvious fix if for no other reason the number of percipients. Most of the other squabbles on this board are from individuals who don't appreciate the mid to late November calendar, logistics, airports, hotels, course and meet management availability. The regionals will never be good setup for some teams no matter what changes are made. Any change you made is going have an effect in some other way.
I love this-but yes, move Northeast OUT OF BOWDOIN - that's a horrible venue, and I don't mean the toughness of the course(although a kinder course would help imo) - the logistics are awful, not enough parking, bathrooms or spectating.
Thanks for chiming in! Glad to hear a local perspective, especially from a New Yorker instead of someone from elsewhere in the Northeast (since the meet is already in New York and you guys are even more familiar with Feds always being there). Aside from VCP (which wouldn't particularly be central for NY + New England), are there any other notable courses that should be considered that is central to the region and preferably close enough to a major airport? Franklin Park in Boston was the first to come to mind. Potentially also Wickham Park (Hartford CT) or Derryfield Park (Manchester NH).
If you wanted to keep the meet in NY, there was a good course at Saratoga (SPAC) back in the day. Albany also had a nice course. I'd look to any good university courses, I think the rules for college courses are different (don't quote me on that) with the first turn not being before 800m and a certain width being required. Wappinger Falls may be able to handle the Federation meet, which is smaller than the state meet, but it is incredibly unimpressive as a venue for a regional meet., and it didn't handle the mass of people well.
Logistically there’s likely nothing that can be done because of the state meet, but there really should be an NXR California. The current format stinks for top individuals or teams who race in divisions that go out slower than others. Not sure what the solution is.
I love this-but yes, move Northeast OUT OF BOWDOIN - that's a horrible venue, and I don't mean the toughness of the course(although a kinder course would help imo) - the logistics are awful, not enough parking, bathrooms or spectating.
Thanks for chiming in! Glad to hear a local perspective, especially from a New Yorker instead of someone from elsewhere in the Northeast (since the meet is already in New York and you guys are even more familiar with Feds always being there). Aside from VCP (which wouldn't particularly be central for NY + New England), are there any other notable courses that should be considered that is central to the region and preferably close enough to a major airport? Franklin Park in Boston was the first to come to mind. Potentially also Wickham Park (Hartford CT) or Derryfield Park (Manchester NH).
The problem with VCP is that there is no parking and the spectating is non-existent.
Logistically there’s likely nothing that can be done because of the state meet, but there really should be an NXR California. The current format stinks for top individuals or teams who race in divisions that go out slower than others. Not sure what the solution is.
California needs to have their state meet 2 weeks earlier. There is no reason that they need to have their meet on the last weekend of November when all the other states have been done for 2-5 weeks. Don't give me the excuse about how long it takes to go through all your rounds of qualifying. You just move everything back 2 weeks and then you can adjust any regular season meets that get displaced. Very simple.
While this thread has drawn a lot of actual thinking and serious discussion (amazing for LR), you're all wasting your time. Nike will never make wholesale changes. The poster who said less is more is right. It would be a victory if they would just get rid of the NY one state region. While there are other coherent arguments for changes, they simply aren't happening.
In addition, any suggestion that lengthens an already too long season is a non starter.
Last and least, the best change that could be made would be to move NXN out of the miserable swamp. But of course that's never going to happen either.
Logistically there’s likely nothing that can be done because of the state meet, but there really should be an NXR California. The current format stinks for top individuals or teams who race in divisions that go out slower than others. Not sure what the solution is.
California needs to have their state meet 2 weeks earlier. There is no reason that they need to have their meet on the last weekend of November when all the other states have been done for 2-5 weeks. Don't give me the excuse about how long it takes to go through all your rounds of qualifying. You just move everything back 2 weeks and then you can adjust any regular season meets that get displaced. Very simple.
It's funny when people think that CA State meet would ever move for NXN. Good luck with that.
We have the same conversation every year. The girls used to warrant their own region, now not so much (still a very solid state). The boys never did, but were just a byproduct. There are plenty of good solutions, but the fat cats at Nike will never change anything.
You are wrong about the NY boys, when you say “never did”. NY boys finished 1-3 in 2005, and had 3 other teams (Liverpool, Shenendehowa, and Queensbury) who were likely top-10 at NTN but didn’t get consideration. If that’s not worthy of a region, then almost nobody’s worthy.