What do you think he could have run for 5k the day he ran 3:45.1 indoors? Just out of curiosity
It's a fraction of the distance. The 5k isn't in his wheelhouse as the 1500 is. That's why we haven't seen a fast time for him over the 5k. He wouldn't be much faster than 12:45 - certainly not 12:40. Now we will never know since his best days are behind him.
I wouldn’t call his HM extremely bad. Nobody, even himself, expected to go out and hang on to 58:00 pace after peaking for several months for the 1500.
I think what Jakob meant in the interview was that he would start considering the 5000m WR as a target for 2025, of course that never occurred. There isn’t really anything to change training wise.
I neither call his HM extremely bad. -I call it extremely extremely bad! Also goes for his first 10k of that race, that of course also says something of him as a 10000m runner…
In your next sentence you are cherry picking an outlier narrative. -Because even that you rightly allude to the fact that Jakob stressed that he was very insecure before the race, and feared a blow up, and hadn’t prepared, and it was only 36 hours after his last 1500m in a season with that distance as main focus, he nevertheless wouldn’t rule out that he might set a new WR in this actual HM. And neither would his brother and coach Filip…
I haven’t given up Jakob in the 10k/HM. But I think he and those around him must cut the bs about him first and foremost being a HM man based on his current training. He clearly isn’t, not even in the middle of his base training with high mileage. -Just look at his xc and roads career -a couple of catastrophic bad races (u20 WC xc, his 27.54 roads, his HM included the first 10k) and some unimpressive Euros champs golds (his best was the 7.8k xc in 2024 against some very good competitors who clearly weren’t in shape -2/3 of the race was led by the triathlete Milner (10000m pb 28.36!) and Jakob won with marathoner Crippa (27.10/13.02 PRs) on a safe second… So I think Jakob has to change his training/focus (like Almgren) to be something in the 10k/HM globally…
Lastly: I think Jakob changed his training in the fall 2024 (because a change was mentioned), not to down prioritise the 1500m, but probably because of a need of long distance strength he nevertheless expected wouldn’t ruin anything in the 1500m, on the contrary…
you are baiting the Jakob truthers, but fine I'll bite. Been a while since I called out the Jakob lies.
Jakob CAN'T run a real (Olympic distance) world record. 3:26.00 is safe from him and he knows it. 12:35 is safe from him and he knows it. That's why he has never seriously tried.
2-mile is so soft, it's not even technically a "world record," just a world best. 3000 and mile, and anything indoor, is also soft, too rarely contested for the record to be solid. Jakob knows this, but it doesn't bother him. Why? Obviously he knows both 1500 and 5000 are out of his reach.
The debate on this has ended, or at least should have, with this year's injuries. Those don't go away, their effects accumulate and the athlete is never quite the same as before.
you are baiting the Jakob truthers, but fine I'll bite. Been a while since I called out the Jakob lies.
Jakob CAN'T run a real (Olympic distance) world record. 3:26.00 is safe from him and he knows it. 12:35 is safe from him and he knows it. That's why he has never seriously tried.
2-mile is so soft, it's not even technically a "world record," just a world best. 3000 and mile, and anything indoor, is also soft, too rarely contested for the record to be solid. Jakob knows this, but it doesn't bother him. Why? Obviously he knows both 1500 and 5000 are out of his reach.
The debate on this has ended, or at least should have, with this year's injuries. Those don't go away, their effects accumulate and the athlete is never quite the same as before.
It is also quite possible that 3000 is his simply his best distance.
Reread my post, and try to see that it’s possible to have more than a single perspective (in a post)…
Saying that, I think your response is funny, and therefore well posted.
I meant if he breaks the WR by .01 that is just as much of a real world record than if he broke it by 3 seconds. Your post seems to be diminishing the performance if he doesn't destroy the WR.
I’m a dedicated Jakob fan, but in my opinion Jakob hasn’t run a single Good 5000m as an adult!
You mean he hasn't run a single paced time trial to the best of his ability. He has a gold in the Olympics and two in the World Championships. That is "good" because it is far more important to win than run fast in those races. Do people really not understand this?
you are baiting the Jakob truthers, but fine I'll bite. Been a while since I called out the Jakob lies.
Jakob CAN'T run a real (Olympic distance) world record. 3:26.00 is safe from him and he knows it. 12:35 is safe from him and he knows it. That's why he has never seriously tried.
2-mile is so soft, it's not even technically a "world record," just a world best. 3000 and mile, and anything indoor, is also soft, too rarely contested for the record to be solid. Jakob knows this, but it doesn't bother him. Why? Obviously he knows both 1500 and 5000 are out of his reach.
The debate on this has ended, or at least should have, with this year's injuries. Those don't go away, their effects accumulate and the athlete is never quite the same as before.
It is also quite possible that 3000 is his simply his best distance.
It is his best distance. But the world records have always been overrated.
Komen threw a 3 or 4 second outlier out there, beyond what Gebreselassie, Bekele etc were willing to go after. But the three of them collectively moved the 5000WR a lot farther than that, adjusting for the ratio of distances.
Aouita was the first sub 13 and first sub 7:30. 12:58, and 7:29. Bekele's 12:37 was a 21 second improvement over Aouita, Komen's 7:20 only 9 seconds. 3/5 of 21 is 12 seconds. So all 7:17 did is line the event up with the old Bekele 5000 world record, which has since improved to 12:35. So believe it or not, that 3000 WR is still soft even now.
And as you say, Jakob is obviously better at 3000 than 5000. He couldn't run the 5000m equivalent to 7:17. Even at peak form, he'd never have dipped under 12:40; and that ship has sailed from his injuries.
Probably only reason he's even talking about it is 2026 is a rare non-championship year. Nothing else to do.
It is also quite possible that 3000 is his simply his best distance.
It is his best distance. But the world records have always been overrated.
Komen threw a 3 or 4 second outlier out there, beyond what Gebreselassie, Bekele etc were willing to go after. But the three of them collectively moved the 5000WR a lot farther than that, adjusting for the ratio of distances.
Aouita was the first sub 13 and first sub 7:30. 12:58, and 7:29. Bekele's 12:37 was a 21 second improvement over Aouita, Komen's 7:20 only 9 seconds. 3/5 of 21 is 12 seconds. So all 7:17 did is line the event up with the old Bekele 5000 world record, which has since improved to 12:35. So believe it or not, that 3000 WR is still soft even now.
And as you say, Jakob is obviously better at 3000 than 5000. He couldn't run the 5000m equivalent to 7:17. Even at peak form, he'd never have dipped under 12:40; and that ship has sailed from his injuries.
Probably only reason he's even talking about it is 2026 is a rare non-championship year. Nothing else to do.
Can you provide links for those claims? The only thing I can see is that he vaguely said in an interview that he has tweaked little things over the years. I don't know how you know these things. Also, he doesn't do track training (High lactic sessions) until the end of January to prepare for the indoor season (which I think may have contributed to his injury) and then in the middle of may to prepare for the outdoor season. Besides, doing a few sessions at higher mmol/L is only going to help him the 5000. Don't forget that it has a considerable anaerobic component (closer to the 3000 than the amount required for the 1500). I see no reason why he cannot attack a fast time in May/June over 5000m, then proceed to lower the mileage and do faster sessions. That's literally what he did in 2021 (12:48 in Florence on June 10th), and in 2023 (7:54 in Paris on June 9th).
The reason why Jakob is so successful is because the 3000m requires both elite levels of vVO2max, blood lactate response to exercise, and CV all at the same time. The only difference between the 3000 and 5000 is that the 5000's main predictor of success is just two of those things (blood lactate response and CV) with vVO2max to a slightly lesser extent. There should be no reason to seriously doubt his aspirations for the 5000m WR based on "physiology." It's similar enough events that it's very possible.
I think your post here is well written and thought through…
I expected an ask for sources, so I have to do some research, but it can take some time.
I agree that Jakob can attack a fast 5000m time in May/June -he has previously shown a very good fitness for 1500+ distances at that time of year.
I disagree in your claim about a very close similarity between the 3000m and the 5000m. -Of course there’s some overlapping things between the events, but that doesn’t mean a supreme 1500/3000m athlete cannot fade slightly when you add 2000m -examples may be Komen and Kipyegon…
I also disagree (although I’m not totally certain) in your claim about Jakob not doing any high lactate training in the base period. -Think he does the hills most of the year…
I meant if he breaks the WR by .01 that is just as much of a real world record than if he broke it by 3 seconds. Your post seems to be diminishing the performance if he doesn't destroy the WR.
Formally and officially you are of course correct. But if Jakob narrowly beats the record because he has better pacing and conditions there will always be an asterisk behind that WR in my eyes (And maybe in Jakob’s as well..?).
You mean he hasn't run a single paced time trial to the best of his ability. He has a gold in the Olympics and two in the World Championships. That is "good" because it is far more important to win than run fast in those races. Do people really not understand this?
No, I don’t understand that -to me it’s not important to win champs if the competition is weak. And even with a good competition one slowish race won is nothing compared to fast races that is the clear measurement of how good one is.
When Cheptegei broke the WR, maybe because few believed he could do it (I remember the discussion here and include myself), his last pacer dropped out not even halfway through the race. And he ran the fastest laps alone.
Jakob could get pacing up to 3000 or 3200, exactly at WR pace or slightly faster, allowing him to “drop off” a bit once he's solo. I’m not sure what the most efficient way to structure that time trial would be. He could get the record without necessarily hitting his peak shape (or Joshua's peak shape for that matter). And, personally, I wouldn’t raise an eyebrow: he’s earned the right to go for it under the best conditions he can set up, and at the end of the day, it’s still his legs that would have to cover 5000 meters in under 12:35.36
First: His 3000m WR shape was significant better than his 2 miles WB shape. 7:17.55 equals a 7:51 mid in the 2 miles.
Second: If he regains his 2 miles WB shape I think he can narrowly break the 5000m WR. If he regains his 3000m WR he will be able to break the 5000m WR with several seconds.
Third: But it is uncertain if he will come back to these high levels. It is at least necessary that he overcomes his injury problems.
I’m a dedicated Jakob fan, but in my opinion Jakob hasn’t run a single Good 5000m as an adult!
You mean he hasn't run a single paced time trial to the best of his ability. He has a gold in the Olympics and two in the World Championships. That is "good" because it is far more important to win than run fast in those races. Do people really not understand this?
Yet he's repeatedly said that running fast times in shorter distances - the 1500 - at championships is what it's about.