Its a marathon babycakes. Quit all that 'GOAL' stuff. Train to a time you're gonna do based on the course you're gonna run. Don't give yourself any slack of a 'maybe goal'. Man-up or wuss-out.
Its a marathon babycakes. Quit all that 'GOAL' stuff. Train to a time you're gonna do based on the course you're gonna run. Don't give yourself any slack of a 'maybe goal'. Man-up or wuss-out.
I have to pick a time to go for. Running the early parts of the race at the right pace will matter a lot. So, 2:55 or 3?
I ran a 1:22:06 several weeks before my goal marathon and decided I was going for 2:55 though Id never run faster than 3:01 prior. I ended up with a 2:55:36. Technically a fail, but it was in the 2:55's
No true. I would tend to say that 99% of the folks commenting here on this type of issue are actually wanting this guy to succeed. I for sure do.
You want me to succeed. 6:40 and 6:52 will probably both feel easy early in the race. How do I know which of those paces is actually right? I've given my recent 10k info.
You want me to succeed. 6:40 and 6:52 will probably both feel easy early in the race. How do I know which of those paces is actually right? I've given my recent 10k info.
OK. I realize we’re talking about a marathon and there’s a special way to look at pacing.
I realize: 37:4x recent 10K. 1:22 half almost a year ago. You thought you’d have a goal of 1:20 if you were running a half this Feb. How did you determine pace for your half last year? Another 10K and 5K? Did you factor in workouts? Did your performance match your plan (as in, did you more or less run even splits and feel like you were redlining late but didn’t actually fall apart?)? Same question more or less for your recent 10K.
So that would give you a sense about how you determine your own fitness and how successful you were at it.
The problem with the marathon is less that it’s a wildly different pace to plan than that (a) relatively few people plan realistically and (b) too many people deviate from the plan on race day.
You keep saying, “Should I go for 2:55 or 3:00?” Don’t you still have at least a couple of major workouts left? Don’t you have some quality weeks left in which to gauge your recovery?
I’d be reasonably confident that you could go with 2:55, but if you’re wrong and you fade to 3:02, I’m guessing that would bother you? That would be too tough to take compared to shooting for 3:00 and running 2:59? Because in your shape it doesn’t seem at all likely that you’d really fall apart and go to around 3:05 or anything.
For me, part of the experience is thinking: (a) these things seem to indicate that I’m in 2:55 shape. So (b) I’ll try to execute a good strategy to run 2:55, and (c) I’ll find out something about how I approach items an and b on that day.
I mean, if you have a really tough time pacing well and you know there’s a 3:00 group there with a really skilled, experience pacer, then maybe it would benefit you to go out with the pace group.
Part of the rationale is that you’re running more mileage than you did when you ran the 1:22. I’m assuming the recent 10K wasn’t while you were tapered and you didn’t quite treat it like an A race, too.
If you can pace yourself reasonably evenly each mile, If I were you, I’d see if 1:28/1:27 looks good based on the course profile and go after that, unless you have any bad indications over the next few weeks that would sap your confidence in doing so.
You want me to succeed. 6:40 and 6:52 will probably both feel easy early in the race. How do I know which of those paces is actually right? I've given my recent 10k info.
OK. I realize we’re talking about a marathon and there’s a special way to look at pacing.
I realize: 37:4x recent 10K. 1:22 half almost a year ago. You thought you’d have a goal of 1:20 if you were running a half this Feb. How did you determine pace for your half last year? Another 10K and 5K? Did you factor in workouts? Did your performance match your plan (as in, did you more or less run even splits and feel like you were redlining late but didn’t actually fall apart?)? Same question more or less for your recent 10K.
So that would give you a sense about how you determine your own fitness and how successful you were at it.
The problem with the marathon is less that it’s a wildly different pace to plan than that (a) relatively few people plan realistically and (b) too many people deviate from the plan on race day.
You keep saying, “Should I go for 2:55 or 3:00?” Don’t you still have at least a couple of major workouts left? Don’t you have some quality weeks left in which to gauge your recovery?
I’d be reasonably confident that you could go with 2:55, but if you’re wrong and you fade to 3:02, I’m guessing that would bother you? That would be too tough to take compared to shooting for 3:00 and running 2:59? Because in your shape it doesn’t seem at all likely that you’d really fall apart and go to around 3:05 or anything.
For me, part of the experience is thinking: (a) these things seem to indicate that I’m in 2:55 shape. So (b) I’ll try to execute a good strategy to run 2:55, and (c) I’ll find out something about how I approach items an and b on that day.
I mean, if you have a really tough time pacing well and you know there’s a 3:00 group there with a really skilled, experience pacer, then maybe it would benefit you to go out with the pace group.
Part of the rationale is that you’re running more mileage than you did when you ran the 1:22. I’m assuming the recent 10K wasn’t while you were tapered and you didn’t quite treat it like an A race, too.
If you can pace yourself reasonably evenly each mile, If I were you, I’d see if 1:28/1:27 looks good based on the course profile and go after that, unless you have any bad indications over the next few weeks that would sap your confidence in doing so.
Funny enough, based on past experience I think I could actually outperform my 10k to half marathon conversion, but I still doubt my half marathon to marathon.
I wasn't tapered, but I did try to run it fast. It was undoubtedly a way tougher course than the half marathon was. I ran the 1st mile at about 6 flat, but having to cross a steep bridge over a road early in mile 2 was a killer. It came with a 180 degree turn, and there was another steep bridge with a 180 at another section. The first bridge was up, down, up, down, the 2nd was just up then down. There were also a few other turns that forced a breaking of rhythm. I had a guy to chase down for 2nd from about mile 3 to 4.5, but after I passed him I was kind of content to just do enough to maintain 2nd. 1st place ran 33 low, so there was 0 chance I was ever getting to him.
Based on the course adjustments and taper 2:55 seems reasonable. I have a 19 or 20 mile long run with 14 miles at MP still to go, and I'm not worried about that at all. My worries mainly come from a marathon a bit of 2 years ago where I tried for 3:30 and blew up spectacularly to run 3:50, but my peak milage for that was probably below my average for this training block, and much of it was very low mileage, and I took maybe 1 gel the whole race. I've improved a lot in shorter races since then, to the point that this basically feels like a debut, so I think I'm combining typical debut worries with my past terribly trained terribly fueled experience worries.
Mesa is predominately downhill except for a bump at mile 6. If you've been training flat or hilly be prepared to have you butt kicked around mile 20. Don't need to tell you that downhills work different parts of everything. It's not easy-breezy like some speculate. Looks like your last LR is a 15 miler and you have 4 weeks to climb to your 20 mile LR before your taper. What you average on that 20 mi LR will probably call your overall pace on your marathon. The last 6 will hurt but that '30% above the neck' effort, along with the marathon race hype to drive you home. Don't get too aggressive and too fast at the get-go.
Mesa is predominately downhill except for a bump at mile 6. If you've been training flat or hilly be prepared to have you butt kicked around mile 20. Don't need to tell you that downhills work different parts of everything. It's not easy-breezy like some speculate. Looks like your last LR is a 15 miler and you have 4 weeks to climb to your 20 mile LR before your taper. What you average on that 20 mi LR will probably call your overall pace on your marathon. The last 6 will hurt but that '30% above the neck' effort, along with the marathon race hype to drive you home. Don't get too aggressive and too fast at the get-go.
I've done a 21 mile long run, 2 19s, and a lot of 16-18. I have a few more 19-20 mile ones left. The 2nd halfs of my long runs with marathon paces have been slightly downhill, probably more than the 2nd half of Mesa, but less than the 1st.
You're definitely on track for sub-2:55 OP. Mesa is borderline where I'd feel like the course is good for a decent amount of time. Your 10k is worth 2:53. Mesa might be worth sub-2:50. Just be smart & be patient. There is a little uphill section mile's 4-6. Be really cautious in the 1st 10k then settle into the right effort. You don't want to burn matches & go out too hot. Be able to take advantage of all the downhill.
You might want to practice some uphill/downhill running. Stuff I've done in past Boston build that I've liked: 1) 8x ~300m hill (hard up, 30s jog, hard down (more like "strong" or tempo effort -- controlled, not flailing), 1min jog) + 2) hills/tempo combo -- 4x~200m hills (ez jog down)/right into 2m tempo/right into 4x hills/right into 2m tempo/right into 4x hills. Can play around with hill length in either workout & tempo length in the second. I know the Hanson's did downhill mile repeats in old Boston builds.
One kind of fun thing about this race is that one possible outcome is that I fall apart drastically and still get a 40 minute PR. I don't think I'll ever be able to say that going into a marathon again. I think I'm going for 2:55 tho, unless things go wrong in the last long run with goal pace.
This post was edited 14 seconds after it was posted.
Mesa is predominately downhill except for a bump at mile 6. If you've been training flat or hilly be prepared to have you butt kicked around mile 20. Don't need to tell you that downhills work different parts of everything. It's not easy-breezy like some speculate. Looks like your last LR is a 15 miler and you have 4 weeks to climb to your 20 mile LR before your taper. What you average on that 20 mi LR will probably call your overall pace on your marathon. The last 6 will hurt but that '30% above the neck' effort, along with the marathon race hype to drive you home. Don't get too aggressive and too fast at the get-go.
I've done a 21 mile long run, 2 19s, and a lot of 16-18. I have a few more 19-20 mile ones left. The 2nd halfs of my long runs with marathon paces have been slightly downhill, probably more than the 2nd half of Mesa, but less than the 1st.
I think you're ready to kick some butt. Pulling for you. See you at Boston 2027. I'll be there this April.
I've done a 21 mile long run, 2 19s, and a lot of 16-18. I have a few more 19-20 mile ones left. The 2nd halfs of my long runs with marathon paces have been slightly downhill, probably more than the 2nd half of Mesa, but less than the 1st.
I think you're ready to kick some butt. Pulling for you. See you at Boston 2027. I'll be there this April.
I don't think I'm making the cutoff this time around. That's probably the most optimistic end of the possibility range, and I don't quite the guts to pace the early part of the race that way. Maybe I'll see you in Boston 2028