Hocker is the best mid-distance runner in the world right now at any distance. He could have won the 1500 (easily) if WA didn't conspire against him (Coe should be banned). He could have won 10k or marathon. Only flat event he might (and I wouldn't bet on it) not win is the 800m. I would give him even odds to beat Wanyonyi at 800m- since he wasn't even trying at the GST meets. Personally, I also think that he is the only no-doper in the sport.
Peak Jakob was unbeatable from 1500m to 5000m, especially in paced races. He was objectively the fastest. Unfortunately, peak Jakob currently does not exist. I hope he comes back next year because he made track racing much more fun to watch.
I think it would be very close. Hopefully we find out in 2027
They’re close to equal in the 1500m but at twice the distance, Ingebrigtsen is about 5 seconds faster. That advantage would only increase over 5000m.
On paper, yes, but that’s assuming Hocker’s not in better shape now than in February. He probably goes closer to 7:20 if he runs it full peaked in a TT
Jakob can close 800 in 150, while Cole closes 800 in 1:54
that’s the difference.
Considering it's a 5k race, we should look at more than just how they closed. In the two championship races that Jakob closed in 1:50, his 3k splits were 8:14 and 8:18. Hocker's 3k split this weekend was 7:52. Would 2024 Jakob have had the same close he had in Paris if he came through 3k about 26 seconds faster?
Jakob can close 800 in 150, while Cole closes 800 in 1:54
that’s the difference.
Considering it's a 5k race, we should look at more than just how they closed. In the two championship races that Jakob closed in 1:50, his 3k splits were 8:14 and 8:18. Hocker's 3k split this weekend was 7:52. Would 2024 Jakob have had the same close he had in Paris if he came through 3k about 26 seconds faster?
Jakob’s final 2k was also 9-10 seconds faster, it’s hard to say which performance was better. Jakob also wasn’t in peak fitness in Budapest.
This conversation is hilarious. No runner in history wins a championship 5k against the Hocker that we just saw, and it's not particularly close.
Hocker has a kick that is multiple seconds faster than any other 5k runner ever, and he can do it off of sub-13 pace. Even if Jakob generously were in shape to run a time trial 5k 10 seconds faster than Hocker, he loses over a second per lap leading, so Hocker is right with him at the bell. And even if Jakob could take some of the sting out of Hocker's kick, there's no way he can take enough out of him to win, especially if the pace were fast enough that Hocker can kick from within a few yards of the front, rather than from a different time zone.
Obviously it's an entirely different story in a DL where Jakob can have pacers for part of the way, but without help, he's not strong enough to kill Hocker, and in the last lap it's going to be a slaughter every time.
This conversation is hilarious. No runner in history wins a championship 5k against the Hocker that we just saw, and it's not particularly close.
Hocker has a kick that is multiple seconds faster than any other 5k runner ever, and he can do it off of sub-13 pace. Even if Jakob generously were in shape to run a time trial 5k 10 seconds faster than Hocker, he loses over a second per lap leading, so Hocker is right with him at the bell. And even if Jakob could take some of the sting out of Hocker's kick, there's no way he can take enough out of him to win, especially if the pace were fast enough that Hocker can kick from within a few yards of the front, rather than from a different time zone.
Obviously it's an entirely different story in a DL where Jakob can have pacers for part of the way, but without help, he's not strong enough to kill Hocker, and in the last lap it's going to be a slaughter every time.
hey, always enjoy your posts! Glad we're on the same page.
I just don't get why people dwell in the last 1600, who cares when the finish time was significantly faster for Hocker.
And Hocker's endurance is criminally underrated. He just ran the second fastest championship 5k ever (only behind Bekele's 12:57.82) with a 52.6 last lap. The last lap suggests that's no where near his max. Case in point, Chetegei closed a 12:58 in 54 in Tokyo Oly 5k, and in his WR run, his last lap was 59. That was what a truly max-out performance looks like.
Unless you're telling me buy that someone can run a nearly max-out 5k at significantly faster than 800 pace, there's no way 12:58 represents Hocker's maximum performance (in terms of time). Maybe last year, when his last lap of that 12:58.82 was 57, but he has come a long way this year in terms of strength. Throw him (in this shape) in a DL race with wavelight, no traffic and round, he would break 12:40 easily. Jakob may still have the upper hand in time. Probably something like 12:33-34 for Jakob and 12:36-38 for Hocker, but in a championship, there's no way Jakob can run away from Hocker. And when it comes down to kick, it's game over.
And people seem to forget he didn't just close in 52.6, it's done with traffic going from 12th to 1st in lane 2 and sometimes close to lane 3. Despite that, his last lap was a full sec faster than the next person (54.06 from Kimeli who's pretty much in lane 1 the whole time). His kick is downright ridiculous.
This conversation is hilarious. No runner in history wins a championship 5k against the Hocker that we just saw, and it's not particularly close.
Hocker has a kick that is multiple seconds faster than any other 5k runner ever, and he can do it off of sub-13 pace. Even if Jakob generously were in shape to run a time trial 5k 10 seconds faster than Hocker, he loses over a second per lap leading, so Hocker is right with him at the bell. And even if Jakob could take some of the sting out of Hocker's kick, there's no way he can take enough out of him to win, especially if the pace were fast enough that Hocker can kick from within a few yards of the front, rather than from a different time zone.
Obviously it's an entirely different story in a DL where Jakob can have pacers for part of the way, but without help, he's not strong enough to kill Hocker, and in the last lap it's going to be a slaughter every time.
I don’t believe Hocker is doping, but when there are people proposing that someone can go from being spit out the back with 3 laps to go at USAs to EASILY torching Farah and Bekele and Lagat and Ingebrigtsen in a 5k, I don’t blame people for speculating.
The more rational position is obviously he didn’t make the single most suspicious one-year jump in ability ever recorded
hey, always enjoy your posts! Glad we're on the same page.
I just don't get why people dwell in the last 1600, who cares when the finish time was significantly faster for Hocker.
And Hocker's endurance is criminally underrated. He just ran the second fastest championship 5k ever (only behind Bekele's 12:57.82) with a 52.6 last lap. The last lap suggests that's no where near his max. Case in point, Chetegei closed a 12:58 in 54 in Tokyo Oly 5k, and in his WR run, his last lap was 59. That was what a truly max-out performance looks like.
Unless you're telling me buy that someone can run a nearly max-out 5k at significantly faster than 800 pace, there's no way 12:58 represents Hocker's maximum performance (in terms of time). Maybe last year, when his last lap of that 12:58.82 was 57, but he has come a long way this year in terms of strength. Throw him (in this shape) in a DL race with wavelight, no traffic and round, he would break 12:40 easily. Jakob may still have the upper hand in time. Probably something like 12:33-34 for Jakob and 12:36-38 for Hocker, but in a championship, there's no way Jakob can run away from Hocker. And when it comes down to kick, it's game over.
And people seem to forget he didn't just close in 52.6, it's done with traffic going from 12th to 1st in lane 2 and sometimes close to lane 3. Despite that, his last lap was a full sec faster than the next person (54.06 from Kimeli who's pretty much in lane 1 the whole time). His kick is downright ridiculous.
This conversation is hilarious. No runner in history wins a championship 5k against the Hocker that we just saw, and it's not particularly close.
Hocker has a kick that is multiple seconds faster than any other 5k runner ever, and he can do it off of sub-13 pace. Even if Jakob generously were in shape to run a time trial 5k 10 seconds faster than Hocker, he loses over a second per lap leading, so Hocker is right with him at the bell. And even if Jakob could take some of the sting out of Hocker's kick, there's no way he can take enough out of him to win, especially if the pace were fast enough that Hocker can kick from within a few yards of the front, rather than from a different time zone.
Obviously it's an entirely different story in a DL where Jakob can have pacers for part of the way, but without help, he's not strong enough to kill Hocker, and in the last lap it's going to be a slaughter every time.
hey, always enjoy your posts! Glad we're on the same page.
I just don't get why people dwell in the last 1600, who cares when the finish time was significantly faster for Hocker.
And Hocker's endurance is criminally underrated. He just ran the second fastest championship 5k ever (only behind Bekele's 12:57.82) with a 52.6 last lap. The last lap suggests that's no where near his max. Case in point, Chetegei closed a 12:58 in 54 in Tokyo Oly 5k, and in his WR run, his last lap was 59. That was what a truly max-out performance looks like.
Unless you're telling me buy that someone can run a nearly max-out 5k at significantly faster than 800 pace, there's no way 12:58 represents Hocker's maximum performance (in terms of time). Maybe last year, when his last lap of that 12:58.82 was 57, but he has come a long way this year in terms of strength. Throw him (in this shape) in a DL race with wavelight, no traffic and round, he would break 12:40 easily. Jakob may still have the upper hand in time. Probably something like 12:33-34 for Jakob and 12:36-38 for Hocker, but in a championship, there's no way Jakob can run away from Hocker. And when it comes down to kick, it's game over.
And people seem to forget he didn't just close in 52.6, it's done with traffic going from 12th to 1st in lane 2 and sometimes close to lane 3. Despite that, his last lap was a full sec faster than the next person (54.06 from Kimeli who's pretty much in lane 1 the whole time). His kick is downright ridiculous.
You guys are on the same page because neither of you know history. Hocker did not just run the 2nd fastest championship 5k ever. That honor belongs to El Guerrouj, who ran 12:52.83 in Paris in 2003 for the silver medal behind Kipchoge. The top 6 in that race all ran faster than Hocker, as did Salah Hissou when he set the previous championship record in 1999.
To say no runner in history could defeat Hocker in a championship 5k is completely delusional. Do yourself a favor and study up on Jakob Ingebrigtsen, Mo Farah, Kenenisa Bekele, Bernard Lagat, Hicham El Guerrouj, and Eliud Kipchoge for starters. Apparently you aren’t familiar with any of them.
Why didn’t 12:36 Hocker win in Stockholm when Almgren could only run 12:44? Is he stupid?
hey, always enjoy your posts! Glad we're on the same page.
I just don't get why people dwell in the last 1600, who cares when the finish time was significantly faster for Hocker.
And Hocker's endurance is criminally underrated. He just ran the second fastest championship 5k ever (only behind Bekele's 12:57.82) with a 52.6 last lap. The last lap suggests that's no where near his max. Case in point, Chetegei closed a 12:58 in 54 in Tokyo Oly 5k, and in his WR run, his last lap was 59. That was what a truly max-out performance looks like.
Unless you're telling me buy that someone can run a nearly max-out 5k at significantly faster than 800 pace, there's no way 12:58 represents Hocker's maximum performance (in terms of time). Maybe last year, when his last lap of that 12:58.82 was 57, but he has come a long way this year in terms of strength. Throw him (in this shape) in a DL race with wavelight, no traffic and round, he would break 12:40 easily. Jakob may still have the upper hand in time. Probably something like 12:33-34 for Jakob and 12:36-38 for Hocker, but in a championship, there's no way Jakob can run away from Hocker. And when it comes down to kick, it's game over.
And people seem to forget he didn't just close in 52.6, it's done with traffic going from 12th to 1st in lane 2 and sometimes close to lane 3. Despite that, his last lap was a full sec faster than the next person (54.06 from Kimeli who's pretty much in lane 1 the whole time). His kick is downright ridiculous.
You guys are on the same page because neither of you know history. Hocker did not just run the 2nd fastest championship 5k ever. That honor belongs to El Guerrouj, who ran 12:52.83 in Paris in 2003 for the silver medal behind Kipchoge. The top 6 in that race all ran faster than Hocker, as did Salah Hissou when he set the previous championship record in 1999.
To say no runner in history could defeat Hocker in a championship 5k is completely delusional. Do yourself a favor and study up on Jakob Ingebrigtsen, Mo Farah, Kenenisa Bekele, Bernard Lagat, Hicham El Guerrouj, and Eliud Kipchoge for starters. Apparently you aren’t familiar with any of them.
Why didn’t 12:36 Hocker win in Stockholm when Almgren could only run 12:44? Is he stupid?
Peaking. Where was Almgren in the 5k final in Tokyo? lol
Cole’s success bothers a lot of guys on this board. A lot of petty, jealous guys. Cole is a champion. Again. 😂
hey, always enjoy your posts! Glad we're on the same page.
I just don't get why people dwell in the last 1600, who cares when the finish time was significantly faster for Hocker.
And Hocker's endurance is criminally underrated. He just ran the second fastest championship 5k ever (only behind Bekele's 12:57.82) with a 52.6 last lap. The last lap suggests that's no where near his max. Case in point, Chetegei closed a 12:58 in 54 in Tokyo Oly 5k, and in his WR run, his last lap was 59. That was what a truly max-out performance looks like.
Unless you're telling me buy that someone can run a nearly max-out 5k at significantly faster than 800 pace, there's no way 12:58 represents Hocker's maximum performance (in terms of time). Maybe last year, when his last lap of that 12:58.82 was 57, but he has come a long way this year in terms of strength. Throw him (in this shape) in a DL race with wavelight, no traffic and round, he would break 12:40 easily. Jakob may still have the upper hand in time. Probably something like 12:33-34 for Jakob and 12:36-38 for Hocker, but in a championship, there's no way Jakob can run away from Hocker. And when it comes down to kick, it's game over.
And people seem to forget he didn't just close in 52.6, it's done with traffic going from 12th to 1st in lane 2 and sometimes close to lane 3. Despite that, his last lap was a full sec faster than the next person (54.06 from Kimeli who's pretty much in lane 1 the whole time). His kick is downright ridiculous.
You guys are on the same page because neither of you know history. Hocker did not just run the 2nd fastest championship 5k ever. That honor belongs to El Guerrouj, who ran 12:52.83 in Paris in 2003 for the silver medal behind Kipchoge. The top 6 in that race all ran faster than Hocker, as did Salah Hissou when he set the previous championship record in 1999.
To say no runner in history could defeat Hocker in a championship 5k is completely delusional. Do yourself a favor and study up on Jakob Ingebrigtsen, Mo Farah, Kenenisa Bekele, Bernard Lagat, Hicham El Guerrouj, and Eliud Kipchoge for starters. Apparently you aren’t familiar with any of them.
Why didn’t 12:36 Hocker win in Stockholm when Almgren could only run 12:44? Is he stupid?
Ok, I forgot about one particular race, big deal. So it's "only" the third fastest championship 5k, apparently that makes a whole lot of difference. We might not know history, but you for sure need to use some work on comprehension . I said "second fastest championship RACES" not a particular finish time.
Again you need to learn to read, because I've never said "no runner in history could defeat Hocker in a championship 5k". It would help me if could point out where I said it. Actually I even said "it would be 7:3 Hocker to Jakob, assuming both in top form"
maybe because he just didn't care about it? And maybe that's why Almgren couldn't even make it through round in 5k because he already peaked at that 12:44 run? Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with Hocker's (and Kerr for that matter) disregard for anything but Championship at all. I think that mentality is bad for the sport, and hence I'm more of a Jakob fan, but I can't deny his peaking is masterful. Even Kerr isn't nearly as consistent as him in championships. (2022 mysterious fade, 2025 DFL). So yeah, he just sandbagged it or treated it as a training session. Or put it bluntly, He doesn't consider them races at all (again, I don't agree with it)
anyway, love the discussion, keep it going. That's why I still visit this site, you don't get that everywhere!
This conversation is hilarious. No runner in history wins a championship 5k against the Hocker that we just saw, and it's not particularly close.
Hocker has a kick that is multiple seconds faster than any other 5k runner ever, and he can do it off of sub-13 pace. Even if Jakob generously were in shape to run a time trial 5k 10 seconds faster than Hocker, he loses over a second per lap leading, so Hocker is right with him at the bell. And even if Jakob could take some of the sting out of Hocker's kick, there's no way he can take enough out of him to win, especially if the pace were fast enough that Hocker can kick from within a few yards of the front, rather than from a different time zone.
Obviously it's an entirely different story in a DL where Jakob can have pacers for part of the way, but without help, he's not strong enough to kill Hocker, and in the last lap it's going to be a slaughter every time.
hey, always enjoy your posts! Glad we're on the same page.
I just don't get why people dwell in the last 1600, who cares when the finish time was significantly faster for Hocker.
And Hocker's endurance is criminally underrated. He just ran the second fastest championship 5k ever (only behind Bekele's 12:57.82) with a 52.6 last lap. The last lap suggests that's no where near his max. Case in point, Chetegei closed a 12:58 in 54 in Tokyo Oly 5k, and in his WR run, his last lap was 59. That was what a truly max-out performance looks like.
Unless you're telling me buy that someone can run a nearly max-out 5k at significantly faster than 800 pace, there's no way 12:58 represents Hocker's maximum performance (in terms of time). Maybe last year, when his last lap of that 12:58.82 was 57, but he has come a long way this year in terms of strength. Throw him (in this shape) in a DL race with wavelight, no traffic and round, he would break 12:40 easily. Jakob may still have the upper hand in time. Probably something like 12:33-34 for Jakob and 12:36-38 for Hocker, but in a championship, there's no way Jakob can run away from Hocker. And when it comes down to kick, it's game over.
And people seem to forget he didn't just close in 52.6, it's done with traffic going from 12th to 1st in lane 2 and sometimes close to lane 3. Despite that, his last lap was a full sec faster than the next person (54.06 from Kimeli who's pretty much in lane 1 the whole time). His kick is downright ridiculous.
One part that you’re missing is that the final 2k was kind of slow. 5:07 I think for Hocker. The guys simply let up on the 4th K and pretty much until the penultimate lap. Jakob would have made it sub 5 for the 2k in full fitness. With a final K in the low 2:20’s. I don’t think Hocker has the finish to pass him there.
You’re also kind of overrating the finishing time. While it’s one of the fastest, you can’t just say it’s leagues better than a race in 13:00 - 13:10. Most of those races had a significantly faster final Mile/2000m. Some people do better when the pace is slightly faster overall but the pace really lets up on the last 3rd of the race.
Also, Hocker isn’t running 12:36, like ever. If he does he either sandbagged Stockholm or is doping. One of the two.
Actually I even said "it would be 7:3 Hocker to Jakob, assuming both in top form"
Curious_Cat wrote: I would say 7:3 Hocker:Jakob Jakob would really need to grind Cole down with 12:50 pace before the bell lap, presumably teaming up with the likes of Gebriwet, Young and Fisher, otherwise I can't see he could survive Hocker's devastating kick. Edit: that said, it could well be recency bias on my part, as I'm still stunned by the finish. I've never seen anything like that in a championship 5k.
This conversation is hilarious. No runner in history wins a championship 5k against the Hocker that we just saw, and it's not particularly close.
Hocker has a kick that is multiple seconds faster than any other 5k runner ever, and he can do it off of sub-13 pace. Even if Jakob generously were in shape to run a time trial 5k 10 seconds faster than Hocker, he loses over a second per lap leading, so Hocker is right with him at the bell. And even if Jakob could take some of the sting out of Hocker's kick, there's no way he can take enough out of him to win, especially if the pace were fast enough that Hocker can kick from within a few yards of the front, rather than from a different time zone.
Obviously it's an entirely different story in a DL where Jakob can have pacers for part of the way, but without help, he's not strong enough to kill Hocker, and in the last lap it's going to be a slaughter every time.
I disagree, Jakob doesn’t need to run a time trial 5k. All he needs is a faster final K and he is finishing right ahead of Hocker. The difference between 12:58 and 13:11 isn’t monstrous enough for you to make such a bold claim like that.