Rojo talked about this on a recent podcast. A lot of Letsrunners think that for a 1500 runner, being fast at 800 means you'll have a great kick in the 1500. Kessler is a great example of why this isn't necessarily true. He'd probably crush all of the other runners in an 800, yet he still got outkicked in the 1500.
I'll leave how he can develop a better kick to the experts though.
People make this all way more complicated that it really is. The only things that really factor into a kick are speed (can't close in 52 is you can't run 52 fresh) and how much you have left. It's literally not more complicated than that. Some people with not great speed still have great kicks solely because they still have a lot left at the end of those races. Hocker has a great kick when he has it left in the tank, but looked pretty human last year after the Olympics when he was racing Jakob and gassed by the last 200m. Beamish gets a lot of credit for his kick, but it's really just since he has some sort of mental block that prevents him from exerting himself too hard until the last 200m when he realizes how much he has left. I promise his kick wouldn't look too great if he was able to get over that and even though it would result often in better overall performances. Hobbs just doesn't currently have the aerobic strength to keep up with the best in the world and still have enough left to kick hard. He's barely hanging on in 3:29 races so of course he doesn't have the speed at the end to kick. This is evident by his much worse over distance results compared to his 1500m competition (Hocker 7:23, Jakob 7:17, Yared 7:28 while Hobbs has only run 7:35).
A kick is definitely a function of aerobic strength. I have a friend named Ben who has coached some pretty good runners. He once told me that you can make far bigger gains from areobic work than speed work. He has his runners doing a lot of cycling and swimming in addition to running to develop huge aerobic strength with lower body stress.
If it is endurance at a high running rate he could do one the alternatives for several miles worth and then run a hard 6 to 7 miles. I'm asking people here if that would help.
People make this all way more complicated that it really is. The only things that really factor into a kick are speed (can't close in 52 is you can't run 52 fresh) and how much you have left. It's literally not more complicated than that. Some people with not great speed still have great kicks solely because they still have a lot left at the end of those races. Hocker has a great kick when he has it left in the tank, but looked pretty human last year after the Olympics when he was racing Jakob and gassed by the last 200m. Beamish gets a lot of credit for his kick, but it's really just since he has some sort of mental block that prevents him from exerting himself too hard until the last 200m when he realizes how much he has left. I promise his kick wouldn't look too great if he was able to get over that and even though it would result often in better overall performances. Hobbs just doesn't currently have the aerobic strength to keep up with the best in the world and still have enough left to kick hard. He's barely hanging on in 3:29 races so of course he doesn't have the speed at the end to kick. This is evident by his much worse over distance results compared to his 1500m competition (Hocker 7:23, Jakob 7:17, Yared 7:28 while Hobbs has only run 7:35).
A kick is definitely a function of aerobic strength. I have a friend named Ben who has coached some pretty good runners. He once told me that you can make far bigger gains from areobic work than speed work. He has his runners doing a lot of cycling and swimming in addition to running to develop huge aerobic strength with lower body stress.
Well played, re: Ben (from one of his first Hokies)
It might just be that Hobbs needs 1 - 2 more seasons to become unbeatable. In 2021 Hocker was a 3:31 guy who got 6th in the Olympics. It took him until 2024 to level up to 3:27 and most of that was working on his 5000m ability.
I don't see Hobbs really running the 5000m, but more like some more work at 3000m. This year he ran 7:35 and was disappointed because he is smart and understands that 7:35 actually sucks for a medal-level miler (Jacob 7:17, Cole 7:23, Laros 7:29, etc). He knows that if he isn't a sub 7:30 guy he isn't a likely medalist.
I think if he just keeps doing the work, I think he'll level up just like Cole did. Just in time to medal at our home Olympics!
Kessler made a bit of a mistake focusing in on his anaerobic engine. His weakness has always been his aerobic strength. A 1:43 800 is a sign of some pretty dang good anaerobic speed, so I don't know why he tried to focus even more on his anaerobic side if he couldn't muster up a big kick because he was already fatigued by the last 100 in a 1500.
Kessler made a bit of a mistake focusing in on his anaerobic engine. His weakness has always been his aerobic strength. A 1:43 800 is a sign of some pretty dang good anaerobic speed, so I don't know why he tried to focus even more on his anaerobic side if he couldn't muster up a big kick because he was already fatigued by the last 100 in a 1500.
For about 2 weeks after that 1:43, it seemed like Hobbs was a bigger medal threat in the 800m than the 1500m, then suddenly the entire world got 2 seconds faster at 800m. I don't think it was a mistake to work the anaerobic side last year, but this year it should have been clear that it was time to work the other side of the equation. I think Hobbs knew this as well; his comments immediately after his 7:35 showed that he was very concerned about his 3000m+ ability and weakness there. I'm sure he was working on that this year but it hasn't come through yet. I feel like if he keeps working on the "staying power" side, he's going to be like Cole by the next WC/Olympics.
by this analogy, do u mind explaining why ethan strand's kick is so good?
As another poster basically said, he has great aerobic strength. He has good, but not great foot speed. In the 1500m final at NCAAs he lost to a guy with better sprint speed and barely out sprinted like 10 guys who have much worse 3k prs than him. He doesn't have a "great" kick in a slow race. But he does have a great kick in a fast race since he's so aerobically strong. 7:30 for the 3k back in December and seems to have improved since then. Wouldn't be surprised if he were in 7:26 or 7:27 shape now.
Agree with the “strength” take OP outlined. He has more speed that almost the entire field yet he’s still getting out kicked. There is an aerobic strength limitation… and I think a training specificity lapse
What do Josh Kerr and Cole Hocker have in common? They are always able to “shift gears”. Always able to outkick and rarely get outkicked. They also train to shift gears mid-workout in 300-600 reps. Learning to accelerate, and fast. Just like you need to in a race. Hobbs’s training is somewhat similar to Jakob’s with less volume and (maybe?) more speedwork. It sounds like neither of them do this. If kicking was a pure speed thing, Kessler would be fine. If it was all about strength, Jakob would be the new El G. You can see it in their mechanics- Kessler and Jakob have beautiful form but look more or less the same down the homestretch with similar stride length- Kerr looks like a sprinter, Hocker is flailing everywhere, even Nuguse gets his knees up, grits his teeth, and goes for it. I believe the kick is a skill in and of itself that needs to be honed, in addition to the other two components. Just my .02
by this analogy, do u mind explaining why ethan strand's kick is so good?
As another poster basically said, he has great aerobic strength. He has good, but not great foot speed. In the 1500m final at NCAAs he lost to a guy with better sprint speed and barely out sprinted like 10 guys who have much worse 3k prs than him. He doesn't have a "great" kick in a slow race. But he does have a great kick in a fast race since he's so aerobically strong. 7:30 for the 3k back in December and seems to have improved since then. Wouldn't be surprised if he were in 7:26 or 7:27 shape now.
he has a great kick in every race. he lost to green because he had terrible position. He had the fastest final lap of anyone. With 200 left he was in last place. 7-10 meters behind Green. At 150, he final went, still in last. Still 7-10 meters back. He went out into lane 3 on the curve and made up all but a 1/2 meter.
were there any other atheletes that did the 800/1500 last year in paris? 5th overall for 15 and semis for 8 is impressive. if we are talking medalling tho, he may need more specificity for either event (power for the 8 and strength for the 15)
“There is a lot of research on getting sugar immediately after training spiking your insulin levels, which actually improves recovery,” says Maddie Harris, a former University of Colorado runner and registered dietitian specializing in sports nutrition for endurance athletes. “It actually improves muscle glycogen storage, so you’re better at refueling and storing those carbs where they need to be post-training.”
Rice Krispies are not healthy. They're ultra processed food. Only an American would consider this a health food option.
Maybe it's good for his recovery, it sure isn't good for his long-time health.
Kessler made a bit of a mistake focusing in on his anaerobic engine. His weakness has always been his aerobic strength. A 1:43 800 is a sign of some pretty dang good anaerobic speed, so I don't know why he tried to focus even more on his anaerobic side if he couldn't muster up a big kick because he was already fatigued by the last 100 in a 1500.
For about 2 weeks after that 1:43, it seemed like Hobbs was a bigger medal threat in the 800m than the 1500m, then suddenly the entire world got 2 seconds faster at 800m. I don't think it was a mistake to work the anaerobic side last year, but this year it should have been clear that it was time to work the other side of the equation. I think Hobbs knew this as well; his comments immediately after his 7:35 showed that he was very concerned about his 3000m+ ability and weakness there. I'm sure he was working on that this year but it hasn't come through yet. I feel like if he keeps working on the "staying power" side, he's going to be like Cole by the next WC/Olympics.
I definitely agree. He's a great talent and should be really good by the time 2028 rolls around
As another poster basically said, he has great aerobic strength. He has good, but not great foot speed. In the 1500m final at NCAAs he lost to a guy with better sprint speed and barely out sprinted like 10 guys who have much worse 3k prs than him. He doesn't have a "great" kick in a slow race. But he does have a great kick in a fast race since he's so aerobically strong. 7:30 for the 3k back in December and seems to have improved since then. Wouldn't be surprised if he were in 7:26 or 7:27 shape now.
he has a great kick in every race. he lost to green because he had terrible position. He had the fastest final lap of anyone. With 200 left he was in last place. 7-10 meters behind Green. At 150, he final went, still in last. Still 7-10 meters back. He went out into lane 3 on the curve and made up all but a 1/2 meter.
I think part of the issue here is our different definitions of the word "great". Strand is now at a level he really should be compared more to global competition and not NCAA competition. In the NCAA, sure he has a great kick. But someone who has a truly great kick on the global stage would have been able to win that race from Strand's positioning. Alos, part of a great kick is being able to position yourself well. This is easy to do in a fast race where it gets strung out. If Strand couldn't insert himself where he wants in a slow race against NCAA comp, he's not doing it in a WC final.
he has a great kick in every race. he lost to green because he had terrible position. He had the fastest final lap of anyone. With 200 left he was in last place. 7-10 meters behind Green. At 150, he final went, still in last. Still 7-10 meters back. He went out into lane 3 on the curve and made up all but a 1/2 meter.
I think part of the issue here is our different definitions of the word "great". Strand is now at a level he really should be compared more to global competition and not NCAA competition. In the NCAA, sure he has a great kick. But someone who has a truly great kick on the global stage would have been able to win that race from Strand's positioning. Alos, part of a great kick is being able to position yourself well. This is easy to do in a fast race where it gets strung out. If Strand couldn't insert himself where he wants in a slow race against NCAA comp, he's not doing it in a WC final.
I'm not gonna defend Strand's tactics, but it's easier to get position in a fairly strung out 3:28-3:30 pace race than a 3:55 pace race where the entire field is bunched up. And this is exactly what we saw at USATF.
Strand has a world class kick off any pace. 12.5 second final 100 in a 3:30 is ridiculous. And in that 3:47 race, his final 200 was close to a second faster than most of them.