Of course he held the WR in the 880y. I know it's hard to believe but google isn't really a reliable substitute for knowledge.
Lots of commentary on JR's 880 record in this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong: I think it was at the USTFF meet?
I never knew what the hell that USTFF thing was all about. It was however, a thorn in my side. Being that Harry Groves was involved in things like that we hosted a USTFF XC meet (10,000m) every year the week before NCAAs. Definitely not a good thing. No rest for the weary.
What is your issue? Do you think Lutkenhaus is breaking 1:45 again this year? And, if so, why? What informs your analysis, aside from the fact that he’s only ever done it once? Hoppel knows how to peak for a championship. I doubt Lutkenhaus gets out of the first round. And that’s totally fine.
I don't know. Lutkenhaus seems to have a head on his shoulders that is well beyond his years. Look at how he approached the semis -- "that was my final..." That's exactly how you need to do it.
Well, look, I hope you’re right, and you ARE right about his maturity and approach. But, if I were a gambling man, and I am, I would bet CL is “burnt” for this year. But, again, I could be wrong and I hope I am.
Of course he held the WR in the 880y. I know it's hard to believe but google isn't really a reliable substitute for knowledge.
Lots of commentary on JR's 880 record in this thread. Correct me if I'm wrong: I think it was at the USTFF meet? He ran the final a couple hours after the heat, and he negative split it: 53.3 for the first 440y, 51.6 for the second. That 51.6 would be worth 51.3, maybe 51.2, for 400m.
Imagine a 51.3 second lap in an 800. (YES, it happens, but not often.)
Now imagine it almost 60 years ago.
Yes, and imagine that he had today’s tracks, shoes, and bicarb! A 1:41 doesn’t seem like a ridiculous notion.
Ryun simultaneously held the WRs in the mile & 880y, plus the 1500 (en route)and 800 (en route) in 1966 at age 19 and he was definitely a household name worldwide and in the US
Todat, David Rudisha is as much a "household" name as El G ...if you can call either that (both somewhat marginal in the US!) They're both t&f legends but t&f is not nearly as popular anymore. Rudisha 2012 Olympic performance is perhaps revered more the ElGs 3:26.
John Landy is the most recent man to break the 1500m world record en route to breaking the world record for the mile.
In comments about the 800m WR progression, someone mentioned Snell’s 1:44.3 in 1962 then went to Wottle who tied it in ’72. But don’t forget Ralph Doubell, tying Snell’s WR at the Tokyo OG.
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In comments about the 800m WR progression, someone mentioned Snell’s 1:44.3 in 1962 then went to Wottle who tied it in ’72. But don’t forget Ralph Doubell, tying Snell’s WR at the Tokyo OG.
Just hope Lutkenhaus is getting the recovery he needs after nationals. I’ve seen him in two podcasts now. he said he only had one hour of sleep on the flight home before heading back to practice Monday (in a support role, wasn’t running). Gotta absorb those three 800s he did last week.
Well, look, I hope you’re right, and you ARE right about his maturity and approach. But, if I were a gambling man, and I am, I would bet CL is “burnt” for this year. But, again, I could be wrong and I hope I am.
Okay? But why do you care so much? Do you think he should have tried to peak for world's like Hoppel? Because that would be crazy. 😁
May not break 1:45 again? Do you know how much of a difference there is between a 1:42 and a 1:45? I could see him not breaking 1:43 again this season, but I think he is at least capable of casually running 1:44s at this point.
Regarding the potential of Luktenhaus to be a household name, I haven't noticed anything in the media (outside athletics media) about his performance, which is one of the most extraordinary in the history of the sport. Compare with the hype surrounding Gout Gout.
Here's an article just published at Sports Illustrated. It also mentions that Donovan Brazier only started training again in March?? It shows how much difference the bicarb gel and shoes are making, and whatever else they may be taking, that at the age of 27 he sets a pb after 3 years out and 5 months training.
There's probably no high school student who will have a better answer to 'how was your summer?' than Cooper Lutkenhaus. He's entering his junior year and will b
the greatest American 800/880y (also great in 400/440y) runner ever is Mal Whitfield, by far, no one else is even close; although there have been other great ones, eg Tom Courtney, Dave Wottle, Jim Ryun, Rick Wolhuter
i think the next step is to run 143 and 144 as a per usual. and consolidate.
then look for more
Slightly slower, but yes. This is how Cooper and his coach approached things this year. His previous season's PR was 1:47.5, but he had broken 1:49 only once that season. Most of his freshman year races were 1:51, 1:52. So Cooper brought that down to 1:48, 1:49 this year. Those were his times until the State meet.
He obviously was training through those races, with no attempt at all to run a PR. Easy enough to win just treating them as preparation races. Cooper then ratcheted down with a solo 1:47.0 in early May at the Texas State meet (as part of a 400/800 double), then a mid1:46 at his first HS national race, and then 1:45.5 at the second national HS race. That was followed by his performances at US Trials.
Except for the 1:42, which came as a shocking outlier not only to fans but also to both Cooper his coach (they were hoping/crossing fingers for about 1:44 flat), it was all a logical and well planned progression. I would think they would try the same approach next year, but be running consistent 1:45s/1:46s during the early part of the season. Then bring those times down aggressively as the summer approaches.
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I would argue that competitive track wasn’t quite as cutthroat at that elite high school level back then as it is now; now, I think it is harder to stand out like Ryun did compared to Ryun’s time for sure. That being said, this run is also not quite the best in the world performances Ryun was putting up. If he gets sub 1:42 and gets a medal I’ll herald it as better than Ryun though.
Brother Ryun didn’t win a medal in HS, much less at 16 years old. Hoppel and Hoey are legit top 5 guys in the world, and Cooper just beat both of them convincingly. Ryun was 2s off the mile WR in HS, Cooper is 1s off the 800m WR, so I’d call them about even in that sense. At age 17, Ryun was last in his semi at the Olympics (fun fact they were also in Tokyo that year), so I think if Cooper comes next to last in the semis at Worlds, he’ll be better than Ryun. Of course, he still has 2 years to better it.
You are comparing them by age but you also need to take account how many years each athlete was competing when they set records.
Ryun never ran a step in training until XC season of his sophomore year. At the time HS in most schools was only grades 10-12. He broke 4 and made the Oly team in only his 2nd full season of HS track. Let that sink in for a minute.
Today most of the top HS runners start running before entering HS in the 9th grade. Looking at Cooper's Athletic.net profile he ran 2:10 in 7th grade and 2:00.94 to win the 8th grade state championship. So he already has more years of running under his belt than Ryun did as a senior when he ran 3:55.
Personally, I think it's pointless to compare them. I was in HS when Ryun was setting his records so I remember that time well. But it was such a different time in the sport. I'm just glad to be around to see an athlete as talented as Cooper compete.
