I’m actually in favor of these freaks competing in women’s sports. Women overwhelmingly are the demographic who push this stuff. It might be beneficial for them to be humbled by some psychotic man in drag. I find it ironic that largely right wing men feel very passionately about this issue. They are trying to protect the integrity of women’s sports, which is a left wing institution.
Why should we care? Some cultures murder guys and transgenders. Are you saying we should do the same?
I'm saying if you have any interest in the world you live in, you should care There are a lot of cultures/societies out there, and Americans are among the worst for not realizing (or caring). Ethnocentrism is rife in this country.
What’s wrong with ethnocentrism? Why is it more moral to identify with the outsider? I consider loyalty, duty, honor to your culture and people to be a virtue. You do not?
Surely you don't expect the Letsrun crowd to know anything about world cultures, do you? Of course they don't.
And of course you're exactly correct about multiple genders. It's not common, but it's certainly out there and has been. Polynesians, Native Americans....
I've heard the "other cultures" argument made many times, and it's true: some other cultures have specific places of honor for people who fall between male and female.
The one thing nobody ever talks about in those discussions of "other cultures," thought, is whether those intermediate folks compete in the men's or women's division--or whether they compete in athletics at all.
Surely you understand that my response was to an ill-informed assertion that there are only two genders, and has nothing to do with athletics.
My own opinion is that I don't support biological men (who haven't had hormone therapy) in women's races. It's unfair, and is an example of the confusion between gender and biological sex.
The so-called "start list" you posted is from the afternoon of May 1st. The time and date says "4:36 PM 5/1/2025."
But the meet at issue - the 2025 Larry Ellis Invitational - took place on the afternoon and evening of May 2 and the late morning and afternoon of May 3.
The track running races were held on Saturday May 3.
So rather than a "start list," that document appears to be a list of athletes who registered online prior to the deadline (4/28/25 @ 12PM EST) and had their entries accepted.
Also, the May 1st list you posted shows that Sadie Schreiner was registered to run the women's 100 meter dash as well as the women's 200 at the LEI. Schreiner is number 31 on the women's 100 meter list dated May 1.
Confusingly, the May 1st list you posted was published under a misleading heading which called it the meet's "Performance List." The top of every page says:
Larry Ellis Invitational - 5/2/2025 to 5/3/2025 Princeton University Perfomance List
But the official lists stating which athletes actually competed and how well they performed in the heats and the final races at the 2025 Larry Ellis Invitational were published in an entirely separate document posted online by Leone Timing - the meet's official timekeeper, and one of the defendants in Schreiner's lawsuit - which can be found here:
Sadie Schreiner's name does not appear in any of Leone Timing's published lists of official race results for any of the women's 200 or the women's 100 heats or finals that actually took place at the Larry Ellis Invitational at Princeton University on May 3. So if Schreiner did compete in one of those races, it wasn't under the name "Sadie Schreiner."
The Leone Timing results for women's 200 and 100 races actually run at the 2025 LEI also do not show an athlete with any of the other names Schreiner is known to have competed under previously (Camden Schreiner, Rose Schreiner, Sadie Rose Schreiner).
It was alleged that they entered under a pseudonym. There is a list of entries prior to the event that shows their new legal name as entered ergo they did not enter under a pseudonym. Their name does not appear on the official race results because they were banned from competing as the thread is about.
Just to be clear: An anonymous individual posting on this LRC thread under the unregistered user name "Mental health issues" made a post which could be taken to mean Schreiner might have registered for the Larry Ellis Invitational under a pseudonym:
"Was at this meet "Sadie" also entered under a pseudonym or "she" would have gotten booted prior to the entry list even being accepted."
But in Schreiner's legal complaint filed in court, there's no mention of him registering or trying to register for this meet under another name.
On the contrary, Schreiner's lawsuit says that he not only registered under the name Sadie Schreiner when he filled out the forms and paid his fee online prior to the April 28 deadline, but that when he showed up at Princeton to run in women's competion on the day of the meet, he signed in for the women's 200 as Sadie Schreiner too. (He apparently did not sign in for the women's 100, having abandoned his plan to run that women's race ahead of time.)
Moreover, the lawsuit says when when Schreiner saw that the name "Sadie Schreiner" had been removed from the heat sheets for the women's 200 after he had signed for that race, Schreiner tracked down the Princeton officials in charge and offered to show them his reissued birth certificate and driver's license to prove that he's legally recognized by some government agencies as a bloke who's made a bona fide "transition to women hood" (to use the lawsuit's own distinctive wording).
No press accounts that I've come across so far about this lawsuit of Schreiner's say anything about him entering or trying to enter the Larry Ellis Invitational under a name other than Sadie Schreiner. The idea that he did so is totally baseless speculation seen only on this LRC thread.
I’m actually in favor of these freaks competing in women’s sports. Women overwhelmingly are the demographic who push this stuff. It might be beneficial for them to be humbled by some psychotic man in drag. I find it ironic that largely right wing men feel very passionately about this issue. They are trying to protect the integrity of women’s sports, which is a left wing institution.
I am not being mean, but you sound like a guy without women who you love deeply in your life, like a wife or daughter. Women are not a monolith any more than men. I have a daughter who is an athlete, and a wife who was a D1 athlete and still runs. Neither of them want to race "men in drag" (using your words). So I feel a responsibility to help find a solution to this issue that is fair to everyone.
You can’t chop your bits off and say you’re a woman. You’re Trans. NCAA can make a Trans championship and call it that. Run them in the same heats as men or women problem solved.
I'm saying if you have any interest in the world you live in, you should care There are a lot of cultures/societies out there, and Americans are among the worst for not realizing (or caring). Ethnocentrism is rife in this country.
What’s wrong with ethnocentrism? Why is it more moral to identify with the outsider? I consider loyalty, duty, honor to your culture and people to be a virtue. You do not?
Holy crap. Ethnocentrism isn't about identifying with the outsider, nor is it about moral judgment. Where did you get that notion? It's about understanding that there ARE outsiders/others, and that these other cultures do things differently.
I taught anthropology for many years and saw many students -- perhaps like you -- who were astonished to learn that not every culture was like US white middle class culture. They were ethnocentric as a matter of ignorance.
Why should we care? Some cultures murder guys and transgenders. Are you saying we should do the same?
I'm saying if you have any interest in the world you live in, you should care There are a lot of cultures/societies out there, and Americans are among the worst for not realizing (or caring). Ethnocentrism is rife in this country.
There's also cultures that push gay people off roofs, should we follow that culture instead?
Why do we have to solely pick up the culture of the Samoa
I’m actually in favor of these freaks competing in women’s sports. Women overwhelmingly are the demographic who push this stuff. It might be beneficial for them to be humbled by some psychotic man in drag. I find it ironic that largely right wing men feel very passionately about this issue. They are trying to protect the integrity of women’s sports, which is a left wing institution.
I am not being mean, but you sound like a guy without women who you love deeply in your life, like a wife or daughter. Women are not a monolith any more than men. I have a daughter who is an athlete, and a wife who was a D1 athlete and still runs. Neither of them want to race "men in drag" (using your words). So I feel a responsibility to help find a solution to this issue that is fair to everyone.
I have a wife and daughter who I love very much and want them to participate in sports. In a perfect world, I would agree with you, but I’m kind of over spinning my wheels trying to convince women to adopt my political preferences. They want something else and we shouldn’t attempt to give them that, while shielding them from the harm that it produces. It’s the only way that they will understand.
Why should we care? Some cultures murder guys and transgenders. Are you saying we should do the same?
Exactly. Some cultures eat dogs. Some cultures don't allow women to drive. Some cultures throw gays off of roofs. We dont do any of that because our culture deems it wrong. In OUR culture, we don't want men showering with girls in locker rooms, men sharing bathrooms with girls, or men dominating girls at sports. Those things are considered wrong in our culture and will remain that way despite leftists trying to pervert society
Seems to me that "know anything about" is not the same as "why should we care?"
What you and world lee are showing is precisely the problem: an inability to distinguish between knowing about / understanding other cultures and believing that means we should be like them, or they should be like us.
Think about it a little. There's no connection at all.
What’s wrong with ethnocentrism? Why is it more moral to identify with the outsider? I consider loyalty, duty, honor to your culture and people to be a virtue. You do not?
Holy crap. Ethnocentrism isn't about identifying with the outsider, nor is it about moral judgment. Where did you get that notion? It's about understanding that there ARE outsiders/others, and that these other cultures do things differently.
I taught anthropology for many years and saw many students -- perhaps like you -- who were astonished to learn that not every culture was like US white middle class culture. They were ethnocentric as a matter of ignorance.
I believe that you taught anthropology for many years considering you have the reading comprehension of most students coming out of University these days (very poor). I said why is it better to not be Ethnocentric. Ethnocentrism is not about being ignorant of other cultures but holding your own as superior and uniquely yours. To identify with your own culture and people positively.
I'm saying if you have any interest in the world you live in, you should care There are a lot of cultures/societies out there, and Americans are among the worst for not realizing (or caring). Ethnocentrism is rife in this country.
There's also cultures that push gay people off roofs, should we follow that culture instead?
Why do we have to solely pick up the culture of the Samoa
My fingers are going to get tired from responding in the same way. Nobody, as in nobody, is suggesting that anybody should "pick up the culture" of anybody.
I'm suggesting that an educated person ought to have knowledge of other cultures and accept that they do some things differently.
I’m actually in favor of these freaks competing in women’s sports. Women overwhelmingly are the demographic who push this stuff. It might be beneficial for them to be humbled by some psychotic man in drag. I find it ironic that largely right wing men feel very passionately about this issue. They are trying to protect the integrity of women’s sports, which is a left wing institution.
Sooo, accept Monarchies and absolute Authoritarian cultures. No thank you. Ruling by right of God or whatever you worship is archaic and has no place in modern society.
I’m actually in favor of these freaks competing in women’s sports. Women overwhelmingly are the demographic who push this stuff. It might be beneficial for them to be humbled by some psychotic man in drag. I find it ironic that largely right wing men feel very passionately about this issue. They are trying to protect the integrity of women’s sports, which is a left wing institution.
In what sport, and at what level, is a female athlete in danger of being humbled by a psychotic man in drag? Transgender athletes are banned from competing in the NCAA and in our sport, they are required to have commenced hormone suppression prior to puberty to compete professionally.
You seem to believe that to compete against women, all a guy has to is show up.
This post was edited 4 minutes after it was posted.
Sadie Schreiner, a New Jersey resident and NCAA division III runner, arrived at Princeton on May 3 to participate in the Larry Ellis Invitational, an annual race named after the first Black head coach in the Ivy League. Schreiner entered as one of the 141 participants unattached to a university or club, according to the complaint.
The runner declared for the 200-meter women’s race but, the suit says, 15 minutes prior to the race Schreiner noticed that her name was not on the official heat list.
“I do not want to assume, but you are transgender,” a Princeton official told Schreiner, according to the complaint.
Schreiner pleaded with the officials to let her run, noting that her birth certificate and driver’s license reflect that she’s recognized as a woman by government authorities, the lawsuit says.
PS. Can we sue the politicians who let people change their birth certificate.? Sex should be on govt documents. Gender, like religion, should never be asked about anyone in an official capacity. None of your damn business.
Another super important running thread started by our resident bigot Rojo. What a joke.
My head just exploded trying to figure out how all of this may play out in the courts.
Among other things, there's a) NJ’s law against discrimination (N.J.S.A. 10:5-5(a)), b) Trump's February 2025 executive order barring trans athletes (males at birth) from competing against women, c) the NCAA policy complying Trump's executive order, d) federal and constitutional law (notably Title IX and Equal Protection under the 14th Amendment), and e) the Supremacy Clause (federal directives/law would override NJ Law).
SCOTUS should shed some light on this stuff when it decides West Virginia v. B.P.J., and how Title IX should be applied (whether Title IX protects or rejects trans participation in female sports).
Based on its current composition, I'm inclined to think SCOTUS will narrowly tailor its decision to favor West Virginia's argument in the context of sports (that Title IX allows sex-based separation in sports to preserve fairness and opportunity for cisgender girls).
That's the entry list. "The start list" is something the race organizers may or may not publish right before the race after all the last minute scratch. They do this so that the media people know who is actually competing.
Given the number of participants in the race, I don't think they published the start list.