Alan Webbs record will probably never be broken, but even asking this question is very disrespectful towards Jane, who seems to be a very nice young lady.
What is all this talk of supershoes? Are the current spikes really that different than they were before?
No. Modern day spikes aren't better than the 2000-2008 era, but road flats sure as heck are.
You have to go back to pre pebax plates (zoom miler) to get to wear spikes sucked and weighed over 5 ounces.
Let's talk about the heavy leg recovery sleeve thingy mabobbers that Jane wears around her house. I highly doubt anyone in the South has ever seen such a contraption.
How in the world could a woman who has never come close to winning an xc title (she's never finished higher than 10th) and has zero HS records be "arguably the greatest HS girls distance runner in history?"
That's LAUGHABLE.
I mean seriously laughable.
Hell I just looked at the TFN list, she has 1 top 10 time. Tuohy won 3 nxn titles and is still all over the top 10 lists in mile, 3000 and 5000.
As for Hedegren, I'm stunned any stat might say her time is superior to Webb's (since her time is inferior to Cain's 1500, I don't even know why we are talking about this).
But Webb's run got him an appearance on the Letterman show. They aired the final of the USA 1500 live on ESPN's Sportscenter that year.
Hedengren needs to get against pros and go out slower - 64 and see if she can break 4:00. Then we can have this conversation.
Rojo is exactly right. Webb’s run was one for the ages and it inspired a new generation of runners. it is vastly superior
I'm going with Alan Webb because it was 4.6% off the men's world record while Hedengren is 6.4% off the women's world record.
Who you got?
I agree, but it's close. And since she's not losing her hair, I will say that she has more upside than he did. Feels like she's just getting started, as crazy as that sounds.
I'm going with Alan Webb because it was 4.6% off the men's world record while Hedengren is 6.4% off the women's world record.
Who you got?
Who cares? Why can't both be awesome? Comparing the two takes away from one of the accomplishments. Let's try to stop taking things away from high school aged kids.
I would say that Webb's record is slightly more impressive but Hedengren is the complete package and will leave a more enduring stamp on American HS running, thanks to her deep range and speed. Given how efficient her stride is coupled with her speed, I think we are just barely getting a glimpse of what her range can be, as I suspect that her greatest achievements will come later in her career on the roads. She has the makings to have the range and accomplishments of Sifan Hissan but on the American stage, and I suspect she will make big waves on the world stage as well. More stellar running in the years to come, for sure!
I would say that Webb's record is slightly more impressive but Hedengren is the complete package and will leave a more enduring stamp on American HS running, thanks to her deep range and speed. Given how efficient her stride is coupled with her speed, I think we are just barely getting a glimpse of what her range can be, as I suspect that her greatest achievements will come later in her career on the roads. She has the makings to have the range and accomplishments of Sifan Hissan but on the American stage, and I suspect she will make big waves on the world stage as well. More stellar running in the years to come, for sure!
Leery of predictions like this, we've seen with a couple of phenoms where it didn't work out.
The point is that the new generation of spikes are not as "super" as the super shoes. Probably a bit faster but not enormously so. The sport is just taken more seriously now, with better training, higher expectations at the high school level, more national events and competitions and better coaching. Tracks are better too.
Jane's record is insane but I think it also shows that high school girls' distance running is still relatively weaker compared to the boys side (but improving dramatically). Webb's record is only 10s off the WR while Jane's is 15. So I think the eventual girls high school record will be more in the range of 4:17 - 4:18. And Webb's time would be faster with super shoes, etc. I think pretty soon the boys high school record will be closer to 3:50 so it seems the best girl ever could potentially get near 4:15. Jane's not really a true miler; her 5000m time is way more insane to me. I could see her mile record being broken within a few years but I think that 5000m record will last much longer.
So bottom line I see more girls getting into the 4:20s within the next 10 years and I think once there is a year with a few girls in the 4:25 - 4:27 range someone with better 400m speed than Jane (an 800/1600 type) will pop a sub 4:20.
If she was in a pro race like Webb was she could probably get pulled to something truly elite like a 4:20. So I'll still take 3:53, but I think in the right race Jane can knock off a few seconds
Webb's 3:53 takes the cake because it was so out of the blue compared to every other HSer since Ryun, and even crushed Ryun's record. And also done without super shoes. Without super shoes Hedengren is probably on par with Cain in the mile/1500, though probably Cain is superior given that Hedenren's mile is only slightly faster than Cain's 1500 converted. Also there have been a number of HS mile stars knocking that girls record down over the years, while with the 3:53 it had been decades since anyone had even broken 4. The sheer shock of Webb's mile compared to everyone else is what puts its easily above Hedengren's mile I think.
Anyway, I don't think her mile record is that far off Webb's, but I'd definitely give the nod to Webb. Now her 5k record on the other hand, I'd put that on par with Webb's mile.
How did I know you ran a 4:30 mile in high school....
People joining a forum to compare and sharing their stance, "You CAN'T talk about this!" is getting old on this thread. There obviously not a bona fide answer or agreed definition of "better"
I would say that Webb's record is slightly more impressive but Hedengren is the complete package and will leave a more enduring stamp on American HS running, thanks to her deep range and speed. Given how efficient her stride is coupled with her speed, I think we are just barely getting a glimpse of what her range can be, as I suspect that her greatest achievements will come later in her career on the roads. She has the makings to have the range and accomplishments of Sifan Hissan but on the American stage, and I suspect she will make big waves on the world stage as well. More stellar running in the years to come, for sure!
I think Hedengren is a great runner, and hope she makes transition smoothly to college &pro.
Unfortunately, she probably won't leave an enduring stamp on HS running, since nobody knows who she is.
Decker, Gallagher, Hasay, Mu, Cain, Touhy etc all had tons of publicity surrounding their exploits. (Same with Webb)
Hedengren, with only the Sr year records really never built a following. A bit like Allie Zealand 4:29/9:42 in her hs June, or even Addie Wiley, whole mile record came also in sr June.
Did Zealand, Wiley, Cranny, Dudek, Riggs etc leave enduring stamps on hs running?
If nobody knows about it, it basically never happened.
If Hedengren stars as a frosh at BYU, the bandwagon may start to roll more for her.
LOL I get nothing but downvotes but I'll be the one laughing in a few years when a lot more high school girls are running in the 425 range. No disrespect intended for Hedengren at all, who is an incredible 5000m runner who snagged a record that would ordinarily be out of the range of a 5000m type. Girls are improving fast and performances like Hedengren's are raising the bar. Give it 10 years and some girl will run 4:18. Someone with a PR profile more like Mary Cain. Meanwhile, I think it will take much longer for a high school girl to approach a sub 15:00 5000m again.
Jane Hedengren is light-years better than Sadie. It wouldn’t surprise me at all if Sadie never ran 4:23.5 in her career. And Sadie ran one or two great XC races at Woodward Park, but beyond that, definitely not “all-time great” worthy. In the mile, yes. Outside that and the 3200 (No. 4 all time, No. 2 CA all-time), she was mediocre.