The shoes do not make you multiple minutes faster. The world record was a high 2:02 more than a decade ago. So if we found the maximum ability for humans back then, then sure the shoes make you about 2 minutes faster I guess. Except I highly doubt the world record was maxed out over a decade ago. It's going to keep getting lower periodically with or without new shoes coming out
Hall, Ritz, Webb, Solinsky, Centro, Rupp, Wheating, Fernandez...Derrick et al are a snapshot of the classic 1968 to 1988 era revived.
Lukas V is near the split.
While Hocker shares a similar glimose of the classic era, Drew Hunter was a robo-child and the super shoe generation is an entirely different game of running.
I think it’s kind of lame for retired guys to say they were better than the current ones. He was a great runner regardless of what Mantz accomplishes.
Rather than his 2:04.58, I thought his greatest race was his OT win at Central Park.
He didn't say it. He said there was no way he or Mantz could run 2:04:58 in Monday's weather in regular shoes. Maybe with super shoes.
The reality is peak Hall was better than Mantz in the marathon. That central Park race was amazing as was Hall leading London at 30k when it had Geb, Tergat and Khannouchi.
The shoes do not make you multiple minutes faster. The world record was a high 2:02 more than a decade ago. So if we found the maximum ability for humans back then, then sure the shoes make you about 2 minutes faster I guess. Except I highly doubt the world record was maxed out over a decade ago. It's going to keep getting lower periodically with or without new shoes coming out
Accurate. The shoes enhance performance, no question, but not by 3-4 min. Silly.
The quote wasn't a "quote" it was presented as a quote but was taken from Mantz paraphrasing what he remembered. It left off the part where Murphy jokingly asked "is it a 2:04:58 day?" Which is what Hall jokingly replied to. Watch the Mantz interview and it comes across as far more innocuous and friendly banter.
The shoes do not make you multiple minutes faster. The world record was a high 2:02 more than a decade ago. So if we found the maximum ability for humans back then, then sure the shoes make you about 2 minutes faster I guess. Except I highly doubt the world record was maxed out over a decade ago. It's going to keep getting lower periodically with or without new shoes coming out
Accurate. The shoes enhance performance, no question, but not by 3-4 min. Silly.
I wonder how Manz took it. Looks like Ryan was correct. I recall Ryan finished 4th on the day he ran the 2:04:58, just as Manz just did. Ryan still has bragging rights though because he podiumed Boston with a 2:09.
Mantz is fine, and Hall could have made the Mantz prediction without mentioning shoes.
fwiw, Hall finished almost 2 minutes behind 1st/2nd, Mantz finished 28 seconds behind Korir in first, 4 seconds behind 2nd/3rd. I'd say Mantz was more competitive.
Accurate. The shoes enhance performance, no question, but not by 3-4 min. Silly.
Lol! Keep telling yourself that!
Lol!!!! Ok, I will!!!
I’ve been one of the strongest proponents on here for the advantage provided by the shoes. Literally worth a second per lap and I’ve said that multiple times. So, 4 sec in a mile? Yep. 8 sec in a two mile and 12 in a 5000? Absolutely. And so on… 1:45 in the marathon.
But let’s go with the 5 minutes you guys like to tout and call 1982 Beardsley a 2:03 guy. Lol!
he's right though. Any time today run in super shoes is inferior to an equivalent time run 10 years ago. Anybody who says otherwise is insecure at best or intellectually dishonest at worst
he's right though. Any time today run in super shoes is inferior to an equivalent time run 10 years ago. Anybody who says otherwise is insecure at best or intellectually dishonest at worst
I should have said "to an identical time" vs. "equivalent" here
Is there a problem with being honest? Bro was running in some cheap ASICS foam.
ALSO- looks like he knows what he is talking about
I agree but people tend to overestimate shoes imo. Boston 2011 would be one of those rare days where everything comes together where you get perfect weather & better shoes would aid in even faster times. Weather is always a toss up at Boston so it's more fun to just watch the racing going on. Look at Mutai's 2011. His Boston/NYC times were insane for whatever shoes were on his feet.
No issue with Hall's comments. They seem friendly. The comment was made pre-race. & it must be tough to see people running a little faster than you in shoes that are supposed to be a lot faster.
The shoes do not make you multiple minutes faster. The world record was a high 2:02 more than a decade ago. So if we found the maximum ability for humans back then, then sure the shoes make you about 2 minutes faster I guess. Except I highly doubt the world record was maxed out over a decade ago. It's going to keep getting lower periodically with or without new shoes coming out
Accurate. The shoes enhance performance, no question, but not by 3-4 min. Silly.
I don't know why people always downvote this thinking it makes such a massive difference. People have gotten reeeeaaaally slow in the past decade if the shoes make you 3-4 minutes faster but we're running slower times. We've had record number of Americans finishing top 10 at WMM races and olympics, including olympic medals, yet no one has run faster than the American record, and the world record has only improved 2 minutes in more than a decade since the last world record before super shoes. So I guess the question should be asked, why aren't we getting faster? We supposedly have shoes that make us 3-4 minutes faster, but we aren't running 3-4 minutes faster. What happened to us to make us slower?
^^ some data on world record progression, how long between records and how much the improvement was.
April 1985 2:07:12 3 years, 22 seconds April 1988 2:06:50 10 years, 45 seconds September 1998 2:06:05 1 year, 23 seconds October 1999 2:05:42 2.5 years, 4 seconds April 2002 2:05:38 1.5 years, 43 seconds September 2003 2:04:55 4 years, 29 seconds September 2007 2:04:26 1 year, 27 seconds September 2008 2:03:59 3 years, 21 seconds September 2011 2:03:38 2 years, 15 seconds September 2013 2:03:23 1 year, 26 seconds September 2014 2:02:57 4 years, 1min 18 seconds September 2018 2:01:39 4 years, 30 seconds September 2022 2:01:09 1 year, 34 seconds October 2023 2:00:35 Super shoes Invented end of 2015, everyone had prototypes by end of 2019. Only 1 record in this timespan anyway Average improvement in record from 1985 to 2015 (30 years), 2:07:12 down to 2:02:57 is 8.5 seconds per year Average improvement in record from 2015 to 2025 (10 years), 2:02:57 down to 2:00:35 is 14.2 seconds per year... If we attribute the increase to shoes and think we should have kept the 8.5 seconds per year average, then we've seen 5.7 seconds * 10 = 57 second improvement due to the shoes. This seems reasonable to me, but not "3-4 minutes". So basically Kipchoge's improvement minus his 57 seconds from better shoes means he had an equivalent better marathon by 21 seconds instead of his 1:18 improvement, again 21 seconds is pretty inline with the typical record improvement. So Ryan may have run 2:04:01 on his windy day at Boston with modern shoes, but saying he'd run 3-4 minutes faster, meaning 2:01:58-2:00:58 is ridiculous.
Ryan has an ego. He earned it. But it is a somewhat cheap shot.
Anyhow, Hall and Mantz are both world class guys. I will note, neither of them can hold a candle to Galen Rupp, let alone Frank Shorter.
Mantz has time, and talent, he'll be improving and doing well. Best wishes to kick butt. He is an exciting athlete.
Rupp would not have beaten Hall at the marathon distance in Hall's prime. Rupp had the more demonstrated career at other distances.
Why do people think Hall is undisputedly better. His best olympic finish is 10th, his best WMM finish is 3rd one time. Rupp's PR on a legal course is better than Hall's from London, he has a WMM victory plus two silvers, and olympic bronze in the marathon.
Mantz has finished better at the olympics than Hall has, has finished 4th and a few other top 7 WMM finishes. Hall had his 3rd and a couple 5ths. And I'd argue marathoning is more competitive now than in the early 2000's. A lot of big names were still focusing on track back then, but they've since cut so much track prize money and incentives that nearly all good african runners just go straight to the marathon now and don't linger on the track.