Arcadia 3200 was the biggest let down of all time

John Wesley Harding wrote:

I just posted this on the Arcadia live thread before seeing this thread.

“Why would these kids let Arcadia go slow??”

First off, 4:28/4:29 at 1600 isn’t like some snail’s pace, and based on the splits I think basically everyone capable of running sub-9 in the invitational race cleared that barrier.

But the class of the field, the guys who would have been capable of confidently leading through in 4:20 without risk of shooting themselves in the foot, were more concerned with trying to win, which is understandable in a competitive foot race. Sure, there’s no “national title” ascribed to the race, but when it’s the most competitive 3200 of the year and the list of recent winners includes Sahlman-Birnbaum-Simmons, the stakes and prestige assign themselves. None of the sub-4 guys wanted to lead 2400m and then finish 5th in 8:36 in a race that would be remembered as the time 4 kids broke 8:35.

Most of the other guys in the race wanted a ride to a fast time, which again is understandable. They wanted to hitch themselves to the magical Arcadia peloton, stay as relaxed as possible and hopefully move up in the last 800 and set a big PR. Without spending too much time looking into it, I’m sure a lot of them did run PRs, albeit maybe not the big rewrites they were dreaming of. One guy who did not PR is Manny Putz, who ran 9:05 (he ran 9:08 at Arcadia last year, 8:56y at NON ‘24, 9:00y at NIN ‘25), and he was the only guy who tried taking it on in the first 3 laps and then went from 1st to 36th place between 1200 and 2000m. This is largely because running PR pace from the front is hard, physically and mentally (as is falling from 1st to 36th place).

I think people are crapping on this race too much. It’s not really fair to work yourself into a tizzy expecting a national record winning time and dozens of crazy PRs from the comfort of your chair, since no meet can exceed expectations year after year, and there’s no actual magic at Arcadia. We still got 23 kids at 8:54 or faster, 12 sub-8:50, and a winner running 8:39 with a 54 last 400, which I believe is a historical first (correct me if I’m wrong…maybe Hunter and Kessler came close). Much of the last lap was exciting as it looked possible for Tostenson or Ruthe to close down on Powell if he tired. It was a more entertaining race than 3 years ago when Sahlman ran 8:34.99, Leo Young 8:35.72, and those two finished 60 meters clear of third place—only 8 broke 8:50 that year, by the way.

Happy downvoting!

John Wesley Harding wrote:

I just posted this on the Arcadia live thread before seeing this thread.

“Why would these kids let Arcadia go slow??”

First off, 4:28/4:29 at 1600 isn’t like some snail’s pace, and based on the splits I think basically everyone capable of running sub-9 in the invitational race cleared that barrier.

But the class of the field, the guys who would have been capable of confidently leading through in 4:20 without risk of shooting themselves in the foot, were more concerned with trying to win, which is understandable in a competitive foot race. Sure, there’s no “national title” ascribed to the race, but when it’s the most competitive 3200 of the year and the list of recent winners includes Sahlman-Birnbaum-Simmons, the stakes and prestige assign themselves. None of the sub-4 guys wanted to lead 2400m and then finish 5th in 8:36 in a race that would be remembered as the time 4 kids broke 8:35.

Most of the other guys in the race wanted a ride to a fast time, which again is understandable. They wanted to hitch themselves to the magical Arcadia peloton, stay as relaxed as possible and hopefully move up in the last 800 and set a big PR. Without spending too much time looking into it, I’m sure a lot of them did run PRs, albeit maybe not the big rewrites they were dreaming of. One guy who did not PR is Manny Putz, who ran 9:05 (he ran 9:08 at Arcadia last year, 8:56y at NON ‘24, 9:00y at NIN ‘25), and he was the only guy who tried taking it on in the first 3 laps and then went from 1st to 36th place between 1200 and 2000m. This is largely because running PR pace from the front is hard, physically and mentally (as is falling from 1st to 36th place).

I think people are crapping on this race too much. It’s not really fair to work yourself into a tizzy expecting a national record winning time and dozens of crazy PRs from the comfort of your chair, since no meet can exceed expectations year after year, and there’s no actual magic at Arcadia. We still got 23 kids at 8:54 or faster, 12 sub-8:50, and a winner running 8:39 with a 54 last 400, which I believe is a historical first (correct me if I’m wrong…maybe Hunter and Kessler came close). Much of the last lap was exciting as it looked possible for Tostenson or Ruthe to close down on Powell if he tired. It was a more entertaining race than 3 years ago when Sahlman ran 8:34.99, Leo Young 8:35.72, and those two finished 60 meters clear of third place—only 8 broke 8:50 that year, by the way.

Happy downvoting!

yay marxism wrote:

John Wesley Harding wrote:

I just posted this on the Arcadia live thread before seeing this thread.

“Why would these kids let Arcadia go slow??”

First off, 4:28/4:29 at 1600 isn’t like some snail’s pace, and based on the splits I think basically everyone capable of running sub-9 in the invitational race cleared that barrier.

But the class of the field, the guys who would have been capable of confidently leading through in 4:20 without risk of shooting themselves in the foot, were more concerned with trying to win, which is understandable in a competitive foot race. Sure, there’s no “national title” ascribed to the race, but when it’s the most competitive 3200 of the year and the list of recent winners includes Sahlman-Birnbaum-Simmons, the stakes and prestige assign themselves. None of the sub-4 guys wanted to lead 2400m and then finish 5th in 8:36 in a race that would be remembered as the time 4 kids broke 8:35.

Most of the other guys in the race wanted a ride to a fast time, which again is understandable. They wanted to hitch themselves to the magical Arcadia peloton, stay as relaxed as possible and hopefully move up in the last 800 and set a big PR. Without spending too much time looking into it, I’m sure a lot of them did run PRs, albeit maybe not the big rewrites they were dreaming of. One guy who did not PR is Manny Putz, who ran 9:05 (he ran 9:08 at Arcadia last year, 8:56y at NON ‘24, 9:00y at NIN ‘25), and he was the only guy who tried taking it on in the first 3 laps and then went from 1st to 36th place between 1200 and 2000m. This is largely because running PR pace from the front is hard, physically and mentally (as is falling from 1st to 36th place).

I think people are crapping on this race too much. It’s not really fair to work yourself into a tizzy expecting a national record winning time and dozens of crazy PRs from the comfort of your chair, since no meet can exceed expectations year after year, and there’s no actual magic at Arcadia. We still got 23 kids at 8:54 or faster, 12 sub-8:50, and a winner running 8:39 with a 54 last 400, which I believe is a historical first (correct me if I’m wrong…maybe Hunter and Kessler came close). Much of the last lap was exciting as it looked possible for Tostenson or Ruthe to close down on Powell if he tired. It was a more entertaining race than 3 years ago when Sahlman ran 8:34.99, Leo Young 8:35.72, and those two finished 60 meters clear of third place—only 8 broke 8:50 that year, by the way.

Happy downvoting!

But you have to understand what the point of Arcadia is. Yes, winning the most competitive distance race of the year is nice but it has usually been a TT. The tactical races are for the end of the year and this is for setting a big pr.

John Wesley Harding wrote:

I just posted this on the Arcadia live thread before seeing this thread.

“Why would these kids let Arcadia go slow??”

First off, 4:28/4:29 at 1600 isn’t like some snail’s pace, and based on the splits I think basically everyone capable of running sub-9 in the invitational race cleared that barrier.

But the class of the field, the guys who would have been capable of confidently leading through in 4:20 without risk of shooting themselves in the foot, were more concerned with trying to win, which is understandable in a competitive foot race. Sure, there’s no “national title” ascribed to the race, but when it’s the most competitive 3200 of the year and the list of recent winners includes Sahlman-Birnbaum-Simmons, the stakes and prestige assign themselves. None of the sub-4 guys wanted to lead 2400m and then finish 5th in 8:36 in a race that would be remembered as the time 4 kids broke 8:35.

Most of the other guys in the race wanted a ride to a fast time, which again is understandable. They wanted to hitch themselves to the magical Arcadia peloton, stay as relaxed as possible and hopefully move up in the last 800 and set a big PR. Without spending too much time looking into it, I’m sure a lot of them did run PRs, albeit maybe not the big rewrites they were dreaming of. One guy who did not PR is Manny Putz, who ran 9:05 (he ran 9:08 at Arcadia last year, 8:56y at NON ‘24, 9:00y at NIN ‘25), and he was the only guy who tried taking it on in the first 3 laps and then went from 1st to 36th place between 1200 and 2000m. This is largely because running PR pace from the front is hard, physically and mentally (as is falling from 1st to 36th place).

I think people are crapping on this race too much. It’s not really fair to work yourself into a tizzy expecting a national record winning time and dozens of crazy PRs from the comfort of your chair, since no meet can exceed expectations year after year, and there’s no actual magic at Arcadia. We still got 23 kids at 8:54 or faster, 12 sub-8:50, and a winner running 8:39 with a 54 last 400, which I believe is a historical first (correct me if I’m wrong…maybe Hunter and Kessler came close). Much of the last lap was exciting as it looked possible for Tostenson or Ruthe to close down on Powell if he tired. It was a more entertaining race than 3 years ago when Sahlman ran 8:34.99, Leo Young 8:35.72, and those two finished 60 meters clear of third place—only 8 broke 8:50 that year, by the way.

Happy downvoting!

John Wesley Harding wrote:

I just posted this on the Arcadia live thread before seeing this thread.

“Why would these kids let Arcadia go slow??”

First off, 4:28/4:29 at 1600 isn’t like some snail’s pace, and based on the splits I think basically everyone capable of running sub-9 in the invitational race cleared that barrier.

But the class of the field, the guys who would have been capable of confidently leading through in 4:20 without risk of shooting themselves in the foot, were more concerned with trying to win, which is understandable in a competitive foot race. Sure, there’s no “national title” ascribed to the race, but when it’s the most competitive 3200 of the year and the list of recent winners includes Sahlman-Birnbaum-Simmons, the stakes and prestige assign themselves. None of the sub-4 guys wanted to lead 2400m and then finish 5th in 8:36 in a race that would be remembered as the time 4 kids broke 8:35.

Most of the other guys in the race wanted a ride to a fast time, which again is understandable. They wanted to hitch themselves to the magical Arcadia peloton, stay as relaxed as possible and hopefully move up in the last 800 and set a big PR. Without spending too much time looking into it, I’m sure a lot of them did run PRs, albeit maybe not the big rewrites they were dreaming of. One guy who did not PR is Manny Putz, who ran 9:05 (he ran 9:08 at Arcadia last year, 8:56y at NON ‘24, 9:00y at NIN ‘25), and he was the only guy who tried taking it on in the first 3 laps and then went from 1st to 36th place between 1200 and 2000m. This is largely because running PR pace from the front is hard, physically and mentally (as is falling from 1st to 36th place).

I think people are crapping on this race too much. It’s not really fair to work yourself into a tizzy expecting a national record winning time and dozens of crazy PRs from the comfort of your chair, since no meet can exceed expectations year after year, and there’s no actual magic at Arcadia. We still got 23 kids at 8:54 or faster, 12 sub-8:50, and a winner running 8:39 with a 54 last 400, which I believe is a historical first (correct me if I’m wrong…maybe Hunter and Kessler came close). Much of the last lap was exciting as it looked possible for Tostenson or Ruthe to close down on Powell if he tired. It was a more entertaining race than 3 years ago when Sahlman ran 8:34.99, Leo Young 8:35.72, and those two finished 60 meters clear of third place—only 8 broke 8:50 that year, by the way.

Happy downvoting!