It was claimed to be Testoboost- basically some cheesy concoction from GNC- but point well taken. I had forgotten about the prednisone.
Yeah it's not rocket science what Alberto figured out.
For the longest time the consensus was that any type of steroid or androgens were the domain of and only useful for power athletes like sprinters. Distance runners used EPO, maybe growth hormone.
But Salazar experimented with low doses of steroids/androgens with distance runners (or his kid) and realized there were real benefits to be had, especially with respect to weight loss, lean muscle promotion, recovery etc etc. And almost serendipitously, he could get these into his athletes with over-the-counter supplements that when administered in low doses played perfectly into his "grey zone" (not the "Gray zone" - no disrespect Johnny) theory of cheating. No dodgy paper trails. No dealing with guys like Conte, Heredia etc who would rat him out if push came to shove, he and his athletes could basically order stuff from Amazon or an online store. Total win (depending on your perspective).
I think your memory is very selective, and/or you might be purposely diverting attention away from Nike and Athletics West. You think a young Alberto was the brain child behind Athletics West?
It might be interesting to get Malmo to chime in (again) on the history.
And almost serendipitously, he could get these into his athletes with over-the-counter supplements that when administered in low doses played perfectly into his "grey zone" (not the "Gray zone" - no disrespect Johnny) theory of cheating. No dodgy paper trails. No dealing with guys like Conte, Heredia etc who would rat him out if push came to shove, he and his athletes could basically order stuff from Amazon or an online store. Total win (depending on your perspective).
Would be interesting to get your take on sub-3hr Nick Bare, and Tuohy being the poster child for his suppleme….uh, never mind.
Some could say that without Alberto we wouldn’t have the Americans performing at the level they’re performing today.
And another would say that's why he's BANNED. He and his lab rats are a black eye on track.
My take is that the so-called ‘sport’ is broken, due to drugs.
Take for instance, a guy like Wanyonyi: running from poverty, told he’s from the wrong tribe, a seasoned pro sees him training and tells him he needs to hook up with a certain Italian coach.
This is why I think the ~2008 to ~2015 period looks like the cleanest period in a long while for the sport. Things are muddy now with the influence of shoes. It's funny how during that period there was lots of complaining about nobody trying to run fast or chase records. Lots of sit and kick races. Maybe, just maybe, it was never realistic for runners to go out and chase records every week on the DL circuit and especially not in WC/OLY races with everything on the line without having some chemical assistance. From memory, almost all of the "dominant" runners in that period are known/highly likely dopers. Remember the mysterious Kenyan 1500 collapse at every championship? We all wondered why the Ethiopian 10k teams didn't just run away from Mo Farah (not saying he was clean either). If I had to guess, the testing was ahead of doping in that period. I will never forget watching Genzebe Dibaba run a 3:50 1500 in Monaco (in old spikes) and knowing doping was back. I'm probably off but, in my memory, that was right around when doping won and then the Rio Olympics made a mockery of the sport. I still believe NOP and Rupp (NOT Farah with his special trips to Spain/Morocco) were absolutely pushing the limits of what was allowable without crossing the line and barely reaching the top level of the sport until that stopped being enough and the squeaky clean Bowerman Babes started collecting records and medals. Before widespread EPO usage and ~2008 to ~2015 look strangely similar compared to the times between and since...
I have a hard team believing 2008-2015 was a clean period when in 2011 Mo Farah moved to Oregon to train with Salazar and suddenly transformed from also-ran to world-beater at the age of 28, then dominated the sport for the next 5 years.
Finally someone talking sense. He had previously trained as a professional with camps in Kenya, etc with Mottram. Adidas saw no potential in his future for more improvement, so happily allowed Nike to buy out his contract.
Yeah it's not rocket science what Alberto figured out.
For the longest time the consensus was that any type of steroid or androgens were the domain of and only useful for power athletes like sprinters. Distance runners used EPO, maybe growth hormone.
But Salazar experimented with low doses of steroids/androgens with distance runners (or his kid) and realized there were real benefits to be had, especially with respect to weight loss, lean muscle promotion, recovery etc etc. And almost serendipitously, he could get these into his athletes with over-the-counter supplements that when administered in low doses played perfectly into his "grey zone" (not the "Gray zone" - no disrespect Johnny) theory of cheating. No dodgy paper trails. No dealing with guys like Conte, Heredia etc who would rat him out if push came to shove, he and his athletes could basically order stuff from Amazon or an online store. Total win (depending on your perspective).
I think your memory is very selective, and/or you might be purposely diverting attention away from Nike and Athletics West. You think a young Alberto was the brain child behind Athletics West?
It might be interesting to get Malmo to chime in (again) on the history.
Right, good reminder. There was no such "consensus". Quite of few distance runners from Athletics West were on steroids. In parallel, the GDR and Soviet Union used steroids for most if not all their runners including Cierpinski (Olympic gold in 1976 and 1980). Baumann, coming from West Germany (Olympic silver 1988, gold 1992), was caught with steroids well after the German reunion. He remained fastest non-African born 5000 m runner until the super shoe era started. Clearly that steroid idea for distance runners wasn't originating from Salazar/NOP. Not coincidentally, we just had a BTC distance runner banned for steroids too.
Interestingly, Canova stated here on letsrun that steroids are more useful for altitude-living marathon runners than EPO, claiming that Mosop would have run 2:01 using steroids.
This is why I think the ~2008 to ~2015 period looks like the cleanest period in a long while for the sport. Things are muddy now with the influence of shoes. It's funny how during that period there was lots of complaining about nobody trying to run fast or chase records. Lots of sit and kick races. Maybe, just maybe, it was never realistic for runners to go out and chase records every week on the DL circuit and especially not in WC/OLY races with everything on the line without having some chemical assistance. From memory, almost all of the "dominant" runners in that period are known/highly likely dopers. Remember the mysterious Kenyan 1500 collapse at every championship? We all wondered why the Ethiopian 10k teams didn't just run away from Mo Farah (not saying he was clean either). If I had to guess, the testing was ahead of doping in that period. I will never forget watching Genzebe Dibaba run a 3:50 1500 in Monaco (in old spikes) and knowing doping was back. I'm probably off but, in my memory, that was right around when doping won and then the Rio Olympics made a mockery of the sport. I still believe NOP and Rupp (NOT Farah with his special trips to Spain/Morocco) were absolutely pushing the limits of what was allowable without crossing the line and barely reaching the top level of the sport until that stopped being enough and the squeaky clean Bowerman Babes started collecting records and medals. Before widespread EPO usage and ~2008 to ~2015 look strangely similar compared to the times between and since...
Wild that this could be true, AND we still end up with the 2012 Olympic 1500 right in the middle of that period.
I think your memory is very selective, and/or you might be purposely diverting attention away from Nike and Athletics West. You think a young Alberto was the brain child behind Athletics West?
It might be interesting to get Malmo to chime in (again) on the history.
No, but I think he was brain child behind what went on at the Oregon Project. Which was with respect to the athletes I was talking about.
I know very well the history of Athletics West and also of Nikes involvement in stuff like this.
This is why I think the ~2008 to ~2015 period looks like the cleanest period in a long while for the sport. Things are muddy now with the influence of shoes. It's funny how during that period there was lots of complaining about nobody trying to run fast or chase records. Lots of sit and kick races. Maybe, just maybe, it was never realistic for runners to go out and chase records every week on the DL circuit and especially not in WC/OLY races with everything on the line without having some chemical assistance. From memory, almost all of the "dominant" runners in that period are known/highly likely dopers. Remember the mysterious Kenyan 1500 collapse at every championship? We all wondered why the Ethiopian 10k teams didn't just run away from Mo Farah (not saying he was clean either). If I had to guess, the testing was ahead of doping in that period. I will never forget watching Genzebe Dibaba run a 3:50 1500 in Monaco (in old spikes) and knowing doping was back. I'm probably off but, in my memory, that was right around when doping won and then the Rio Olympics made a mockery of the sport. I still believe NOP and Rupp (NOT Farah with his special trips to Spain/Morocco) were absolutely pushing the limits of what was allowable without crossing the line and barely reaching the top level of the sport until that stopped being enough and the squeaky clean Bowerman Babes started collecting records and medals. Before widespread EPO usage and ~2008 to ~2015 look strangely similar compared to the times between and since...
How could you think that 2008 to 2015 looks clean when in the next years as soon as they started testing the Kenyans in country after that point 400 tested positive or were banned? It's obvious that they were dominating in the years prior because they were doping just as much. Why the times weren't getting faster is a different question. It might be because more testing was the response to fast times. In the 5k/10k, we had the Mo Farah era in which he never went for fast times and in fact he went to the front to slow down the pace any time it did start going fast. When he wasn't in the race, there was basically only the 2012 Paris race where they really went for it and had multiple guys, including a young but still old looking Gebrhiwet, in the 12:40s. That race, however, proved that they could run really fast. They just were not trying to do it.
No, but I think he was brain child behind what went on at the Oregon Project. Which was with respect to the athletes I was talking about.
I know very well the history of Athletics West and also of Nikes involvement in stuff like this.
Actually you only think you know the history of Athletics West. Craig Virgin and I were there the first year and there was nothing going on that year. The weight guys, Mac Wilkins and Al Feuerbach were, but what do you expect. They also said so.
Suspected strongly that Doug Brown was only because he boasted as much in group settings, "Steroids are good! They got me on three Olympic teams." He said that at track meets and parties in the 1980s
AW started the doping thing at least by 1980, probably 1979 because Brownie and two others admitted it to me in the Spring of 1980. Other than that it is mostly speculation.
Ron Tabb has spilled the beans privately about Mary. Others have similar stories but none of them want to be implicated themselves. Supposedly Mary's brother John (I think) was shipping drugs up from Texas to Eugene acquired from his job but the veracity of that rumor is hard to confirm. You would have to ask Tabb about that.
Some people actually know the facts but random grannies named Salvatore are making it up as they go along.
This post was edited 13 minutes after it was posted.
Fancy Bear also blew the whistle on US TUEs in particular gymnast Simon Biles for ADHD "diagnosis". But nothing to see here - just a banned potent stimulant that improves concentration...
"testosterone medication" was shown on the photo. To be precise: in 2002, Rupp was "presently on prednisone and testosterone medication". The counter story was Salazar's and Rupp's unproven but possible explanation.
It was claimed to be Testoboost- basically some cheesy concoction from GNC- but point well taken. I had forgotten about the prednisone.
Yes, "Testoboost" is what was claimed. Others claimed that they ate uncircumcised pigs, had sex four times, or carried the blood of their unborn twin. But I believe my eyes over the word of the accused in this case. Taking Testoboost" won't result in hemoglobin rising from 760 to 900, but taking testosterone will.
Actually you only think you know the history of Athletics West. Craig Virgin and I were there the first year and there was nothing going on that year. The weight guys, Mac Wilkins and Al Feuerbach were, but what do you expect. They also said so.
Suspected strongly that Doug Brown was only because he boasted as much in group settings, "Steroids are good! They got me on three Olympic teams." He said that at track meets and parties in the 1980s
AW started the doping thing at least by 1980, probably 1979 because Brownie and two others admitted it to me in the Spring of 1980. Other than that it is mostly speculation.
Ron Tabb has spilled the beans privately about Mary. Others have similar stories but none of them want to be implicated themselves. Supposedly Mary's brother John (I think) was shipping drugs up from Texas to Eugene acquired from his job but the veracity of that rumor is hard to confirm. You would have to ask Tabb about that.
Some people actually know the facts but random grannies named Salvatore are making it up as they go along.
Haha, George calm down - you aren't the only one on the face of this planet or this messageboard that know people/things/history in and about this sport.
Actually you only think you know the history of Athletics West. Craig Virgin and I were there the first year and there was nothing going on that year. The weight guys, Mac Wilkins and Al Feuerbach were, but what do you expect. They also said so.
Suspected strongly that Doug Brown was only because he boasted as much in group settings, "Steroids are good! They got me on three Olympic teams." He said that at track meets and parties in the 1980s
AW started the doping thing at least by 1980, probably 1979 because Brownie and two others admitted it to me in the Spring of 1980. Other than that it is mostly speculation.
Ron Tabb has spilled the beans privately about Mary. Others have similar stories but none of them want to be implicated themselves. Supposedly Mary's brother John (I think) was shipping drugs up from Texas to Eugene acquired from his job but the veracity of that rumor is hard to confirm. You would have to ask Tabb about that.
Some people actually know the facts but random grannies named Salvatore are making it up as they go along.
Haha, George calm down - you aren't the only one on the face of this planet or this messageboard that know people/things/history in and about this sport.
I agree with much of this, but don’t dismiss the strong circumstantial evidence that suggests that AlSal may have been giving Rupp androgel massages during that period. As a reminder:
-AlSal had a prescription for androgel
-AlSal had his androgel on him frequently, including at training camps
-AlSal conducted an experiment in the Nike lab to determine exactly how much of his androgel could be applied to someone before triggering a positive test
-AlSal regularly gave massages to Rupp despite having access to licensed massage therapists
-A Nike doctor reported that Rupp was on “testosterone medication” at the age of 16
Am I missing anything?
It was not "testosterone medication". It was an over the counter gym bro supplement bought at a Vitamin World near you.
No.
Saladbar documents literally read that "G.R." was "presently on testosterone medication."
I think your memory is very selective, and/or you might be purposely diverting attention away from Nike and Athletics West. You think a young Alberto was the brain child behind Athletics West?
It might be interesting to get Malmo to chime in (again) on the history.
Right, good reminder. There was no such "consensus". Quite of few distance runners from Athletics West were on steroids. In parallel, the GDR and Soviet Union used steroids for most if not all their runners including Cierpinski (Olympic gold in 1976 and 1980). Baumann, coming from West Germany (Olympic silver 1988, gold 1992), was caught with steroids well after the German reunion. He remained fastest non-African born 5000 m runner until the super shoe era started. Clearly that steroid idea for distance runners wasn't originating from Salazar/NOP. Not coincidentally, we just had a BTC distance runner banned for steroids too.
Interestingly, Canova stated here on letsrun that steroids are more useful for altitude-living marathon runners than EPO, claiming that Mosop would have run 2:01 using steroids.
