About 1:41 flat. The 1:47 in 2022 was a one off. He raced that as part of a workout at that meet because he arrived too late to race the 1500. That 8 wasn’t all out and it was during part of his heavy training block focused on threshold.
Jakob is much faster than people think. He closed a final 200 of the 15 in Monaco in 2023 in 24.02 seconds. Thats faster than any of his competitors. He only loses to those guys in championships because of his over aggressive tactics.
He told Norwegian media he ran a 46 400 in practice at the end of the 2022 season. He said in that interview he could run about 1:41 flat but he doesn't like running the 800. He said when he runs that fast he starts to get hip inflammation and he prefers the 1500 and longer, so he said he would likely never attempt an all out 800 race.
April fools was yesterday bro
Check out the Aftenposten news article from 2022. Use the Google translate feature because it’s in Norwegian.
Quite possibly. It’s arguable what the cutoff is, but the speed to run a 46 is mostly going to be an anatomical anaerobic feat. At that speed the body’s metabolic cycle will burn glucose instead of oxygen. So it taps into what is essentially an emergency cell energy reserve to keep going, and it can only sustain that until the body will automatically slow down due to lactic acidosis. This is why you will never see even a 400/800 go out in under 48 seconds in the first lap of the 8. Faster than that for almost anyone is close to a max out sprint. Even a 43 second guy can’t really run a moderate paced 46 and keep going another 400 meters. If a 43 sec guy goes out in 46, it will feel more comfortable than his PR, but will still feel close to red line and he’ll have to stop at about 550m.
A 3:39 mile is just under 55 sec per lap. 54 highs are by no means jogging but still technically in a majority aerobic metabolic zone. At this speed the body is still burning oxygen and releasing carbon dioxide and sugar in its respiratory cycle. It’s tapped into glucose a bit, but isn’t tapped out by any means. So someone with 46 400 turnover can potentially go through 1:49 and feel like they can run another one if their aerobic metabolism is pretty much perfect. There isn’t a single lap fast enough in and of itself that will cause lactic acidosis. A 46 guy running 8 sec slower only needs to worry about lactic cumulative buildup but with a high enough resistance will not max out running 4 54s in a row.
I hope you are better at yodeling than you are biochemistry.
Showing my age, I remember being disappointed when Morceli "only" ran 1:44.79 in Rieti. He had a devastating kick in his prime off, but he didn't have the speed reserve for the 800m; his wheels fell off in the final 100m. He was also a 1500/mile/3000/5000m guy. Catcho running 1:45.37 also comes to mind.
Morceli didn´t run 1:44.79 in Rieti. He ran 1:44.79 in Annaba in 1991 at a time where his PB in the 1500m was only 3:31.00.
AND Morceli only ran some few 800m races in his career (in 1991 and 1994) whereas his PB in the 1500m was run in 1995 (3:27,34). So I would say Morceli would at least have been a 1:43 runner if he had focused more on the distance AND run it when at his best in the 1500m.
Fermin Cacho likewise ran his 1:45 PB when his PB in the 1500m was only 3:32.
So if you want to conclude anything from the merits of these 2 runners I would be that Jakob should be able to run significantly faster in the 800m.
Straw man argument. A corrolary of my point is that their 1500m+ times improved from strength, not speed. Granted, Morceli's 1:44.79 was in 1991, but you omit to say he ran 1:44.89 in Rieti in 1994, the year of his best 5k (13:03.85) and sandwiched in-between his WR mile (1993) and 1500m (1995). So, you have a response to your 1:43 argument. Speed evidently had little to do with his distance improvements. Similarly, Jakob continues to improve his 1500m/mile in tandem with his 3k, etc; Farah improved over 1500m in line with his distance improvements, etc, etc. While you're at it, move beyond distance, and attribute Johnson's 200m improvements to 100m PR improvements, etc, etc.
He's obviously much faster now than in 2020; back then he was just barely starting to crack the 3:30 barrier in the 1500 and the 3:50 barrier in the mile; now he's run 3:26 and 3:43 (and 3:45 indoors).
My gut says 1:44 with the potential of cracking 1:44 in absolutely perfect conditions.
He's able to comfortably run a 52 second lap at the end of a mile and a 54 second lap at the end of a 3k. To think that all he'd be able to run a 52 second lap twice is not that far fetched IMO. Yes he's more of an endurance guy than a speed guy but he still has good enough speed to run 3:26 and close races extremely fast.
He's obviously much faster now than in 2020; back then he was just barely starting to crack the 3:30 barrier in the 1500 and the 3:50 barrier in the mile; now he's run 3:26 and 3:43 (and 3:45 indoors).
My gut says 1:44 with the potential of cracking 1:44 in absolutely perfect conditions.
He's able to comfortably run a 52 second lap at the end of a mile and a 54 second lap at the end of a 3k. To think that all he'd be able to run a 52 second lap twice is not that far fetched IMO. Yes he's more of an endurance guy than a speed guy but he still has good enough speed to run 3:26 and close races extremely fast.
It seems obvious to me that Jakob would run a faster 800m than Nick Symmonds. if he prioritized the event. I am aware Nick S. had run some fast 400s. But really stop and think about it, please.
He's obviously much faster now than in 2020; back then he was just barely starting to crack the 3:30 barrier in the 1500 and the 3:50 barrier in the mile; now he's run 3:26 and 3:43 (and 3:45 indoors).
My gut says 1:44 with the potential of cracking 1:44 in absolutely perfect conditions.
He's able to comfortably run a 52 second lap at the end of a mile and a 54 second lap at the end of a 3k. To think that all he'd be able to run a 52 second lap twice is not that far fetched IMO. Yes he's more of an endurance guy than a speed guy but he still has good enough speed to run 3:26 and close races extremely fast.
It seems obvious to me that Jakob would run a faster 800m than Nick Symmonds. if he prioritized the event. I am aware Nick S. had run some fast 400s. But really stop and think about it, please.
If Jakob could at any point run 1:42.8 along with his current over distance accolades he would be a 3:23-3:24 guy.
Thats a bonkers take.
I think Jakob is probably good for 1:44 mid.
100ish mpw mostly comprised of threshold, Vo2/Mile pace and hill sprints for speed development just doesn’t really get you to that kind of 800m speed. Fully willing to be wrong here, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen a sub 1:43 capable athlete run a world class 5000m. There’s a good physiological reason for that. You start getting to the point where overall frame and muscle fiber composition allow you to do things physiologically that also inhibit you from doing other things physiologically. This is why you can’t just take someone like Noah Lyles, have him run 70 mpw and break the 800/1500m world records. You could maybe make him good enough to make a D1 team as a middle distance athlete. Even though it’s a smaller lapse in specific talent, it’s the same idea saying someone who probably runs best at 3000-5000m could run a world class 800m.
This post was edited 6 minutes after it was posted.
First we need to define the terms: is he training for the 800? Or are you asking what he can run off of his current training paradigm? People have mentioned Cram/Coe/etc but the trained specifically for 8/15. Ingy doesn't train for that. He trains for the 1500-3k-5k
Anyway, assuming no change in training to specialize in the 800 I give him 1:44
people saying 1.46 are smiling crack. even 1.45. 💯 he can run 1.44 and 1.43 something is actually doable. please cut the “lack foot speed bs”
Correct. Jakob actually has the third fastest final 200 in a 1500 at 24.02 seconds only behind Coe’s 24.01 and 23.76. He also claimed to a Norwegian news organization out of Oslo a few years ago that he’s run about a 46 flat 400 from a standing start in practice. It was at the end of the 2022 season. In that same interview he said he could get down to 1:41 flat but he doesn’t like the 800 because when he runs that fast he gets hip inflammation. He said he’ll probably never run an all out 800 again and will continue to move up in distance.
If he has 46:00 /1:41 speed why is he forcing the pace and getting outkicked by guys that are not as quick as that ?
It seems obvious to me that Jakob would run a faster 800m than Nick Symmonds. if he prioritized the event. I am aware Nick S. had run some fast 400s. But really stop and think about it, please.
If Jakob could at any point run 1:42.8 along with his current over distance accolades he would be a 3:23-3:24 guy.
Thats a bonkers take.
I think Jakob is probably good for 1:44 mid.
100ish mpw mostly comprised of threshold, Vo2/Mile pace and hill sprints for speed development just doesn’t really get you to that kind of 800m speed. Fully willing to be wrong here, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen a sub 1:43 capable athlete run a world class 5000m. There’s a good physiological reason for that. You start getting to the point where overall frame and muscle fiber composition allow you to do things physiologically that also inhibit you from doing other things physiologically. This is why you can’t just take someone like Noah Lyles, have him run 70 mpw and break the 800/1500m world records. You could maybe make him good enough to make a D1 team as a middle distance athlete. Even though it’s a smaller lapse in specific talent, it’s the same idea saying someone who probably runs best at 3000-5000m could run a world class 800m.
Some of these people claiming he's ran 46/47 and therefore is capable of 1:41/1:42 are absolutely out of their damn minds. Average Jakob glazer.
As the quoted post states, if he really had that much footspeed then there is no way he'd be getting outkicked as much as he does and he would've shattered the mile/1500 world record long ago. Jakob is not Seb Coe.
Jakob is capable of 1:44 mid at the absolute MAX. Tired of all these crazy MPW junkies thinking that high mileage will just suddenly grant you the ability to run 1:42. No.
He is clearly in honest form. However, he would need to switch up his training for a bit in order to get a world class time. I think he will have to learn the race so he doesn’t accelerate too much at the start. However, I think something around sub 1:43 is certainly possible.
It seems obvious to me that Jakob would run a faster 800m than Nick Symmonds. if he prioritized the event. I am aware Nick S. had run some fast 400s. But really stop and think about it, please.
If Jakob could at any point run 1:42.8 along with his current over distance accolades he would be a 3:23-3:24 guy.
Thats a bonkers take.
I think Jakob is probably good for 1:44 mid.
100ish mpw mostly comprised of threshold, Vo2/Mile pace and hill sprints for speed development just doesn’t really get you to that kind of 800m speed. Fully willing to be wrong here, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen a sub 1:43 capable athlete run a world class 5000m. There’s a good physiological reason for that. You start getting to the point where overall frame and muscle fiber composition allow you to do things physiologically that also inhibit you from doing other things physiologically. This is why you can’t just take someone like Noah Lyles, have him run 70 mpw and break the 800/1500m world records. You could maybe make him good enough to make a D1 team as a middle distance athlete. Even though it’s a smaller lapse in specific talent, it’s the same idea saying someone who probably runs best at 3000-5000m could run a world class 800m.
It's really not bonkers. Jakob hasn't run an 800 since 2020 when he was still a teenager, he likely could've run 1:45 around that time but was still clearly prioritizing mid-distance, because his threshold there is world-beating, whereas his threshold in the 800 is obviously not. He has never prioritized the race or been put in a fast time trial while in his mature form.
You need to spend at least some significant amount of time understanding how to run a fast 800 in order to actually do it, it is not just about how fast you can run a 400m. Being able to run a 3:26 1500m is a much stronger indicator of being able to break 1:43 than any 400m time could ever be.
Your first point about Jakob being a 3:23 guy if he had 1:42 high speed is also bonkers. That is even more speculative than what I claimed, and shows dogmatic thinking.
LetsRun is famous for urging 400m athletes to move up in distance to the 800 with speculation of them being capable of running extremely fast times. Jakob running a sub 1:43 800m is not even close to the same kind of jump as moving Noah Lyles up to the 1500m and having him break the world record. Way too many loose comparisons here.
2. Using Hobbs' 800m is not a good proxy for Jakob. Jakob would probably beat Hobbs in a 5k by 30 seconds, so Hobbs can be a lot faster at 800m but still slower at 1500m.
But anyway, I'm not the Jakob 1:46 camp. I think Jakob is a 1:45 low / 7:16? 3k runner which chart perfectly. I don't think even Hocker is a sub 1:44 guy and he's the best kicker of the bunch.
If Jakob could at any point run 1:42.8 along with his current over distance accolades he would be a 3:23-3:24 guy.
Thats a bonkers take.
I think Jakob is probably good for 1:44 mid.
100ish mpw mostly comprised of threshold, Vo2/Mile pace and hill sprints for speed development just doesn’t really get you to that kind of 800m speed. Fully willing to be wrong here, but I don’t think we’ve ever seen a sub 1:43 capable athlete run a world class 5000m. There’s a good physiological reason for that. You start getting to the point where overall frame and muscle fiber composition allow you to do things physiologically that also inhibit you from doing other things physiologically. This is why you can’t just take someone like Noah Lyles, have him run 70 mpw and break the 800/1500m world records. You could maybe make him good enough to make a D1 team as a middle distance athlete. Even though it’s a smaller lapse in specific talent, it’s the same idea saying someone who probably runs best at 3000-5000m could run a world class 800m.
It's really not bonkers. Jakob hasn't run an 800 since 2020 when he was still a teenager, he likely could've run 1:45 around that time but was still clearly prioritizing mid-distance, because his threshold there is world-beating, whereas his threshold in the 800 is obviously not. He has never prioritized the race or been put in a fast time trial while in his mature form.
You need to spend at least some significant amount of time understanding how to run a fast 800 in order to actually do it, it is not just about how fast you can run a 400m. Being able to run a 3:26 1500m is a much stronger indicator of being able to break 1:43 than any 400m time could ever be.
Your first point about Jakob being a 3:23 guy if he had 1:42 high speed is also bonkers. That is even more speculative than what I claimed, and shows dogmatic thinking.
LetsRun is famous for urging 400m athletes to move up in distance to the 800 with speculation of them being capable of running extremely fast times. Jakob running a sub 1:43 800m is not even close to the same kind of jump as moving Noah Lyles up to the 1500m and having him break the world record. Way too many loose comparisons here.
I agree with the above poster. If Jakob was a strength based 1:42 guy. He would definitely run at least 3:24. Being able to run a 2x 1500ms in 3:41 and 3:36 with no rest is the reason he can 3:26. His 3k is unprecedented. His 800m isn average.
Morceli didn´t run 1:44.79 in Rieti. He ran 1:44.79 in Annaba in 1991 at a time where his PB in the 1500m was only 3:31.00.
AND Morceli only ran some few 800m races in his career (in 1991 and 1994) whereas his PB in the 1500m was run in 1995 (3:27,34). So I would say Morceli would at least have been a 1:43 runner if he had focused more on the distance AND run it when at his best in the 1500m.
Fermin Cacho likewise ran his 1:45 PB when his PB in the 1500m was only 3:32.
So if you want to conclude anything from the merits of these 2 runners I would be that Jakob should be able to run significantly faster in the 800m.
Straw man argument. A corrolary of my point is that their 1500m+ times improved from strength, not speed. Granted, Morceli's 1:44.79 was in 1991, but you omit to say he ran 1:44.89 in Rieti in 1994, the year of his best 5k (13:03.85) and sandwiched in-between his WR mile (1993) and 1500m (1995). So, you have a response to your 1:43 argument. Speed evidently had little to do with his distance improvements. Similarly, Jakob continues to improve his 1500m/mile in tandem with his 3k, etc; Farah improved over 1500m in line with his distance improvements, etc, etc. While you're at it, move beyond distance, and attribute Johnson's 200m improvements to 100m PR improvements, etc, etc.
Is it really not possible for you to check where Morceli has run his 1:44s?
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