The Ivy League stands against “social injustice.” These schools are a bunch of hypocrites. Sophia should have been allowed to run. Justice for Sophia Gorriaran!
Harvard would be the FIRST school to reject Princeton's entry if the roles were reversed. Harvard has no moral high ground here.
I am not defending Harvard, I am criticizing the system that prevented the best athlete from competing in her event through no fault of her own
This is one more example -- these student athletes are just pawns in a game being played by the coaches/administrators for the coaches/administrators. Even the non-revenue college sports are rotten to the core.
In both high school and college, our coaches printed the entries and put them in the locker room the day before the deadline. I would like to offer consulting services to Harvard's track to team to implement such a system. Please contact me directly for my rate.
Look, it's an unpleasant situation and I don't think anyone, even the coaches who are the "beneficiaries," enjoys it. Not a lot of schadenfreude among coaches in my experience.
I (with a games committee) once had to deny an athlete's entry in her best event, the heptathlon--her only chance to get a score that would send her to Nationals that year. (She still made Nationals, in the 400 hurdles.) Her coach, who'd been informed of the special entry procedures for the hept multiple times, just blew it, and we had to reject her lengthy frantic petition. It just would not have been fair to the athletes and schools that had followed the rules.
How about letting her run the race, but just score her as an individual in that event? …that way she doesn’t have to sit out and get penalized for the coach’s mistake, but doesn’t count toward her team’s score. This way the teams who followed the rules aren’t impacted either.
How about letting her run the race, but just score her as an individual in that event? …that way she doesn’t have to sit out and get penalized for the coach’s mistake, but doesn’t count toward her team’s score. This way the teams who followed the rules aren’t impacted either.
Perfect compromise, although I am sure not rulebook permitted
that they tried to enter her late (and were denied) makes clear this was a glitch and not some plan.
even in terms of a plan, sorry, if you have bossong and gorrarian, you rack up individual event points in 2 races a piece plus maybe 1 relay. and ideally not the same relay like DMR.
like go for 1-2 500, 1-2 800, bossong 4x4, gorrarian DMR. having them same relay, while ensuring you win, limits the points haul due to the redundant use of your best pieces.
you do it that way you get 26 points from the individual races you got 10 from, maybe give up some on 4x8.
ooooops math is off, max 36 points instead of 10. they got 10 for bassong, no one else even entered for them at 500. and she's also good at 800. +10/8. then gorrarian 800 +10/8. then maybe gorrarian 500. max potential 36. they are very good. good odds for high points.
1 relay a piece, the ones they got 10 for, keep that. drop 4x8 for gorrarian, -6.
How about letting her run the race, but just score her as an individual in that event? …that way she doesn’t have to sit out and get penalized for the coach’s mistake, but doesn’t count toward her team’s score. This way the teams who followed the rules aren’t impacted either.
For the 1 millionth time, it's not so much about her losing an individual opportunity but rather about Harvard losing TEAM POINTS which 100% cost them a team championship. Gorriarian still ran 2 relays, winning one of them. She still got to race twice. But Harvard couldn't make up for the 10 lost points from the 800 and lost by only 8 points.
Harvard would NOT have had Gorriaran run the 800 if she weren't allowed to score points. They would get more team points from having her run in 2 scoring relays as opposed to 1 non-scoring 800 and 1 scoring relay.
It was unfortunate that Gorriaran lost an opportunity to win an individual title, but it is a MASSIVE TRAGEDY that the ENTIRE TEAM SUFFERED in LOSING a championship they SHOULD HAVE won, all because of the stupid coaching mistake.
and i say -6 but maybe some slapped together 4x8 gets you something.
like i was saying, they have the strategy like a team with marginal points scorers who can't rely on making finals or getting big individual points. ok, push the chips to relays because that might work out better than your 1-4 point odds in the 200m.
but if you have a 10 pointer individually, you chase that. they don't need a relay to chase that 10.
that they tried to enter her late (and were denied) makes clear this was a glitch and not some plan.
even in terms of a plan, sorry, if you have bossong and gorrarian, you rack up individual event points in 2 races a piece plus maybe 1 relay. and ideally not the same relay like DMR.
like go for 1-2 500, 1-2 800, bossong 4x4, gorrarian DMR. having them same relay, while ensuring you win, limits the points haul due to the redundant use of your best pieces.
you do it that way you get 26 points from the individual races you got 10 from, maybe give up some on 4x8.
You can't run the 500 and 800 double because they are back to back - and each has a prelim and final.
It wasn't efficient to put them both on the DMR, but it was the first relay and it allows them each to double back with another relay. This was probably their best option given Gorriaran was 100% fresh heading into the relays and they were at a big deficit already.
Missing Gorriaran's 10 points in the open 800 really destroyed their chances. There was nothing they could have done to win without those points.
How about letting her run the race, but just score her as an individual in that event? …that way she doesn’t have to sit out and get penalized for the coach’s mistake, but doesn’t count toward her team’s score. This way the teams who followed the rules aren’t impacted either.
For the 1 millionth time, it's not so much about her losing an individual opportunity but rather about Harvard losing TEAM POINTS which 100% cost them a team championship. Gorriarian still ran 2 relays, winning one of them. She still got to race twice. But Harvard couldn't make up for the 10 lost points from the 800 and lost by only 8 points.
Harvard would NOT have had Gorriaran run the 800 if she weren't allowed to score points. They would get more team points from having her run in 2 scoring relays as opposed to 1 non-scoring 800 and 1 scoring relay.
It was unfortunate that Gorriaran lost an opportunity to win an individual title, but it is a MASSIVE TRAGEDY that the ENTIRE TEAM SUFFERED in LOSING a championship they SHOULD HAVE won, all because of the stupid coaching mistake.
the flaw in your logic is you seem to assume they fudged the relays like the 800 glitch. memory serves it's usually registered same time.
they didn't forget to put her down in one, then talk ivy into the other. they put her down relays and forgot her 800. she'd have had the same registration issue if they goofed that one too.
so it's 2 layers. 1) the glitch at face value costs you points. 2) the grander strategy viewed critically. the glitch is free points she would have raced. but to me their grander look also was going to leave points on the table. gorrarian and bossong should be chomping up 10/8s in 500 and 800 which is way more useful than a single 10 between them on the same relay. as valuable as 2 relay teams.
this is really not complicated. look at the ivy indoor performance list. at 800, they are 1-2. at 500, 1-6 but that counts 2 runners from the conference meet. they were 1 in both the relays they won. but not 4x8.
to me if you have top athletes in your conference you push your chips on the individual events and the relays you know you can win. you then let the backups mop up some points on 4x8. it feels backwards with the 2 top 800 runners to not win that relay, but if they can get 18 in the open event why limit yourself to 10 (or 6 in reality) on the relay.
and i know the mistake is registration but the people with 1 or 2 on conference lists should be the first people on the registration weeks ago before you even worry about the rest. "i know bossong and gorrarian at 800.....what else....." you have 1-2 in the conference list at 800 AND NO ONE IS ENTERED AT THE DISTANCE!!!!!! that's not just registration. that's a screwup of epic proportions, thought process and everything.
Standard college coach behavior, assholes who will always put themselves ahead of the kids at the end of the day
The other coaches should be embarrassed
Wait, you want the other coaches, who are trying to win a conference championship, help out the team they are directly competing against for that conference championship?
Harvard would be the FIRST school to reject Princeton's entry if the roles were reversed. Harvard has no moral high ground here.
I am not defending Harvard, I am criticizing the system that prevented the best athlete from competing in her event through no fault of her own
The "system" you're referring to is the Harvard coach being an idiot and forgetting to enter his athlete. Nothing else prevented her from racing her event.
How may times can the Harvard coaches screw up until parents and athletes start looking elsewhere? Letsrun has threads on Gorrarian, Fletcher Brooks, Wales-Dinan. I'd prefer competent coaches and sunny days at Stanford.
If the tables were turned the other way, Saretsky 100% chance would have voted the same! That's how the culture is in the Ivy League meetings. No surprise at all. Too bad for the athlete.