You genuinely don’t think our knowledge of the sport has progressed?
Come on now. In the 90s we knew next to nothing about proper nutrition. Do you remember “if the fire’s hot enough, anything burns?” We are training much smarter, running more volume with more quality. More kids than ever are going into the sport which increases the size of the talent pool. And the Internet allows all this information to be disseminated to everyone in the world. As I said, the shoes play a part but if you don’t acknowledge all the rest of this you are simply fooling yourself.
In the '90's "proper nutrition" for you was probably baby food. You have no idea if you think that athletes didn't know about these things 30 years ago. Was El G short of "proper nutrition"? It's still doping and has been so for decades.
due to the fact that, i kind of have it an even playing field with the open season EPO records and todays multiple hacks.
the half marathon, no. it stinks in multiple ways. not saying the guy can't run a real WR,
same thing goes with the up coming 158 marathon, and the ladies 207 marathon. though somebody could do it for real it's likely a very good runner with a multitude of hacks and microdosing.
As mentioned, it's beginning to feel like swimming. Records set every week by seemingly "random" athletes. A sense that any new record could be bettered by someone else next coming race. All records assumed tainted by drugs and aiding technology.
I don't recall records falling in the 80s with the frequency they are now and is many cases by the kinds of margins. It was a pretty dig deal when Grete Waitz took the women's marathon record under 2:30. But that was a time that even slightly better than average men, hundreds of them and quite possibly thousands of them, could better. How many men today, full professionals, can run that fast? You maybe had the occasional mind boggling performance but not anywhere near as frequently as we're seeing now.
And the suspicion of the effect of drugs was really just beginning. It was nowhere near as widespread as now. This whole record orgy began when competition resumed after Covid, after there'd been essentially no out of competition for a year. Yes, shoes and tracks were much faster when racing began again but those improvements also provide great cover for drug related performances. I don't know if anyone was saying Ryun would have beaten Ovett and Coe if he'd had the same training and technology. Mostly he did. Now we have some form of that question pretty much all the time. Some things were different in the 80s.
Geb took the record from 12:58 to 12:56 in 1994, Kiptanui took it to 12:55 the next year, then Geb broke it by 11s to 12:44 2 months later. In 1997, Geb ran 12:41 to break it again, before Komen ran 12:39 9 days later, then Geb broke it with 12:39 the next year. That's 6 WRs in 4 years, dropping the record by almost 20s. You'll notice Fisher broke the 5k indoor WR by 5s to run 12:44, whereas Geb broke the outdoor record by 11s to run 12:44. Afaik, the men's 5k indoor and outdoor WRs have been broken once in the last 20 years, by 5s and 2s respectively. That's NOTHING compared to what Geb did.
Between 1979-1981, the mile WR was broken 5 times (by two guys from the same country), taking it from 3:49.0 to 3:47.33, including a 9 day stretch where it was broken 3x by a total of 1.2s. Another guy from the UK lowered it by another 1s in 1985. So that's 2.2s in 6 years, with the record being broken 6 times. In the last 6 years, the indoor mile WR has been broken 3x, for a total of ~1.8s. Pretty comparable to what guys did 45 years ago, with the only difference being now, with all the supposed advantages of supershoes and supertracks, they're running about 2s faster.
So you think the benefit of 40 years of technological improvements, including supershoes, faster tracks, and better training, has not been able to produce better athletes than 2 guys from the same country 45 years ago? And they need drugs to explain the improvement?
Also, we've been over this, but look at the number of sub 3:30 1500s before 2020 vs after 2020.
Look at the number of sub-3:30 1500s with Jakob in them before 2020 vs after 2020. Since 2019, there have been 0. Maybe the difference maker is having someone who's willing to push the pace, and a field that's ready to latch onto it.
Geb took the record from 12:58 to 12:56 in 1994, Kiptanui took it to 12:55 the next year, then Geb broke it by 11s to 12:44 2 months later. In 1997, Geb ran 12:41 to break it again, before Komen ran 12:39 9 days later, then Geb broke it with 12:39 the next year. That's 6 WRs in 4 years, dropping the record by almost 20s. You'll notice Fisher broke the 5k indoor WR by 5s to run 12:44, whereas Geb broke the outdoor record by 11s to run 12:44. Afaik, the men's 5k indoor and outdoor WRs have been broken once in the last 20 years, by 5s and 2s respectively. That's NOTHING compared to what Geb did.
Between 1979-1981, the mile WR was broken 5 times (by two guys from the same country), taking it from 3:49.0 to 3:47.33, including a 9 day stretch where it was broken 3x by a total of 1.2s. Another guy from the UK lowered it by another 1s in 1985. So that's 2.2s in 6 years, with the record being broken 6 times. In the last 6 years, the indoor mile WR has been broken 3x, for a total of ~1.8s. Pretty comparable to what guys did 45 years ago, with the only difference being now, with all the supposed advantages of supershoes and supertracks, they're running about 2s faster.
So you think the benefit of 40 years of technological improvements, including supershoes, faster tracks, and better training, has not been able to produce better athletes than 2 guys from the same country 45 years ago? And they need drugs to explain the improvement?
I'm not buying it.
To my previous point, all those guys were not only the best runners of their eras but still considered all-time greats in their events. Whereas guys like Fisher, Nuguse are great runners yes, but happy to come away from an Olympics with bronze. That said, I do think current runners are taking indoors more seriously than runners of the past, so I discount indoor WRs.
Look at the number of sub-3:30 1500s with Jakob in them before 2020 vs after 2020. Since 2019, there have been 0. Maybe the difference maker is having someone who's willing to push the pace, and a field that's ready to latch onto it.
Meh. Just look at the number of different individuals running under 3:30. Guys in prior decades had enough rabbited races in their career to have a chance to break 3:30, they just weren't good enough. Now we have like a dozen who are good enough.
I don't recall records falling in the 80s with the frequency they are now and is many cases by the kinds of margins. It was a pretty dig deal when Grete Waitz took the women's marathon record under 2:30. But that was a time that even slightly better than average men, hundreds of them and quite possibly thousands of them, could better. How many men today, full professionals, can run that fast? You maybe had the occasional mind boggling performance but not anywhere near as frequently as we're seeing now.
And the suspicion of the effect of drugs was really just beginning. It was nowhere near as widespread as now. This whole record orgy began when competition resumed after Covid, after there'd been essentially no out of competition for a year. Yes, shoes and tracks were much faster when racing began again but those improvements also provide great cover for drug related performances. I don't know if anyone was saying Ryun would have beaten Ovett and Coe if he'd had the same training and technology. Mostly he did. Now we have some form of that question pretty much all the time. Some things were different in the 80s.
Geb took the record from 12:58 to 12:56 in 1994, Kiptanui took it to 12:55 the next year, then Geb broke it by 11s to 12:44 2 months later. In 1997, Geb ran 12:41 to break it again, before Komen ran 12:39 9 days later, then Geb broke it with 12:39 the next year. That's 6 WRs in 4 years, dropping the record by almost 20s. You'll notice Fisher broke the 5k indoor WR by 5s to run 12:44, whereas Geb broke the outdoor record by 11s to run 12:44. Afaik, the men's 5k indoor and outdoor WRs have been broken once in the last 20 years, by 5s and 2s respectively. That's NOTHING compared to what Geb did.
Between 1979-1981, the mile WR was broken 5 times (by two guys from the same country), taking it from 3:49.0 to 3:47.33, including a 9 day stretch where it was broken 3x by a total of 1.2s. Another guy from the UK lowered it by another 1s in 1985. So that's 2.2s in 6 years, with the record being broken 6 times. In the last 6 years, the indoor mile WR has been broken 3x, for a total of ~1.8s. Pretty comparable to what guys did 45 years ago, with the only difference being now, with all the supposed advantages of supershoes and supertracks, they're running about 2s faster.
So you think the benefit of 40 years of technological improvements, including supershoes, faster tracks, and better training, has not been able to produce better athletes than 2 guys from the same country 45 years ago? And they need drugs to explain the improvement?
I'm not buying it.
I was writing about the 80s. By the 90s EPO had come along. The barrage of rapidly falling records came along when it did. Training to me doesn't seem all that different over the past 60 plus years. Yes, the current shoes and tracks are a huge part of what's going on as is pacing that's gone from illegal to a nicely paid profession. And yes, I still strongly suspect that in many cases we wouldn't see the times we are without drugs. When you see the numbers of Kenyans busted, when you see these records being set by athletes associated with coaches and agents known to have doped athletes I don't know how anyone can not at least be very suspicious.
Every race with talent in it is utterly annihilating world records - at all distances. This is since COVID. I’m tired of it. Stop posting about it. The sun rose this morning and no one wrote about it.
I don't recall records falling in the 80s with the frequency they are now and is many cases by the kinds of margins. It was a pretty dig deal when Grete Waitz took the women's marathon record under 2:30. But that was a time that even slightly better than average men, hundreds of them and quite possibly thousands of them, could better. How many men today, full professionals, can run that fast? You maybe had the occasional mind boggling performance but not anywhere near as frequently as we're seeing now.
And the suspicion of the effect of drugs was really just beginning. It was nowhere near as widespread as now. This whole record orgy began when competition resumed after Covid, after there'd been essentially no out of competition for a year. Yes, shoes and tracks were much faster when racing began again but those improvements also provide great cover for drug related performances. I don't know if anyone was saying Ryun would have beaten Ovett and Coe if he'd had the same training and technology. Mostly he did. Now we have some form of that question pretty much all the time. Some things were different in the 80s.
Geb took the record from 12:58 to 12:56 in 1994, Kiptanui took it to 12:55 the next year, then Geb broke it by 11s to 12:44 2 months later. In 1997, Geb ran 12:41 to break it again, before Komen ran 12:39 9 days later, then Geb broke it with 12:39 the next year. That's 6 WRs in 4 years, dropping the record by almost 20s. You'll notice Fisher broke the 5k indoor WR by 5s to run 12:44, whereas Geb broke the outdoor record by 11s to run 12:44. Afaik, the men's 5k indoor and outdoor WRs have been broken once in the last 20 years, by 5s and 2s respectively. That's NOTHING compared to what Geb did.
Between 1979-1981, the mile WR was broken 5 times (by two guys from the same country), taking it from 3:49.0 to 3:47.33, including a 9 day stretch where it was broken 3x by a total of 1.2s. Another guy from the UK lowered it by another 1s in 1985. So that's 2.2s in 6 years, with the record being broken 6 times. In the last 6 years, the indoor mile WR has been broken 3x, for a total of ~1.8s. Pretty comparable to what guys did 45 years ago, with the only difference being now, with all the supposed advantages of supershoes and supertracks, they're running about 2s faster.
So you think the benefit of 40 years of technological improvements, including supershoes, faster tracks, and better training, has not been able to produce better athletes than 2 guys from the same country 45 years ago? And they need drugs to explain the improvement?
I'm not buying it.
Doping has been in the sport for half a century. It hasn't gone away, but become more sophisticated, if anything. The recent spate of records are putting the doped records of the past in the shadows. They have to be doped to do so. It is all too good to be true.