I remember feeling weird about intentionally drinking a strong coffee before the race just for the caffeine. That was before I drank like 5 cups a day...
I also remember when the VaporFlys came out. They felt like cheating too (because my times instantly got faster through no effort on my part).
But yes, I would try bicarb if it didn't cost $70 for four servings.
Why did you take them? Was it just to get Swole? Or was it to prepare for some sort of competition? Thank you for any explanation.
i got into cycling as a way to escape life, with zero plan to ever compete, literally wasn't on my radar at all
but i loved it and wanted to be able to ride more, which by the way is in my opinion the #1 reason most non-professionals actually dope: they just love working out and want to be able to do it more often and with more intensity
i was using about 1.5-2.0mgs/kg/wk of test and the same of either deca or eq for roughly 1 year. eventually was convinced by fellow cyclists i met out on the road to compete. i gave it a go and won my first race by so much they didn't realize i had won until the lead moto notified the officials.
i stopped using after my first season as a cat5, naively concerned i'd get popped. first few months off sucked, of course, but lost about 6 pounds and by start of next season was even stronger w/kg than before. so i knew at that point test and other aas were truly not needed.
several years later as a cat1 having guest rode for some pro teams (D3, US based) and listened to their convos and the general chatter in the peloton it was clear the only thing that reeeally worked was epo. you'd be beating guys easily, then 4 weeks later they mop the floor with you. it didn't make sense to me until some vets explained how the sport works.
the offseason before i stopped racing, after having done tons of research, i took the plunge because i wanted to see if epo was really what everyone was saying or if it was hype
after doing 50iu/kg eod for 2 weeks and then 50iu/kg e4d for 4 weeks, i was transformed into an absolute god. my w/kg numbers were D1 level for sure (though my experience and ability to read a race was still like cat2 level), 11.5 w/kg for 1' and 6.2 w/kg for 20'
at that point i was like, i can't hide with those numbers. a pro team will absolutely pick me up and then what? i'm totally fkd because i would then have to rely on doping to sustain that and absolutely did not want to get caught. so i hung it up having seen reality. the boost, especially for someone like me that is naturally a 400-800 type relative to running, is just so absurd that it's hard to believe without experiencing it for yourself.
and i got it from papp's site. i'm literally on some list somewhere that thank god never got released.
most will not understand my choices and likely vilify me or say i'm morally bankrupt. fair enough, i don't take it personally. i'm just that type of person who has an insatiable appetite for knowledge. oh you say the stove top is hot, mom? i want to touch it and find out for myself.
trying epo prob saved me 3-4 more years of thinking i could make a living turning the cranks.
Fascinated, thank you for sharing. Glad to hear you elected to stop before turning pro and violating rules.
“1.5-2.0mgs/kg/wk of test and the same of either deca or eq for roughly 1 year.” Assuming you weighed about 65 - 70 kgs (I assume you would be pretty light as a cyclist) that would be roughly 100 - 150 kgs per week of test, and about the same of Deca Durabolin or Equipoise. While not an exorbitant amount compared to some, it’s at least three times what you would get from a doctor for TRT and more than enough to have deleterious side effects. You also didn’t mention cycling off during that year. You mentioned the first few months off “sucked.” What other side effects did you suffer while using? Thank you.
i got into cycling as a way to escape life, with zero plan to ever compete, literally wasn't on my radar at all
but i loved it and wanted to be able to ride more, which by the way is in my opinion the #1 reason most non-professionals actually dope: they just love working out and want to be able to do it more often and with more intensity
i was using about 1.5-2.0mgs/kg/wk of test and the same of either deca or eq for roughly 1 year. eventually was convinced by fellow cyclists i met out on the road to compete. i gave it a go and won my first race by so much they didn't realize i had won until the lead moto notified the officials.
i stopped using after my first season as a cat5, naively concerned i'd get popped. first few months off sucked, of course, but lost about 6 pounds and by start of next season was even stronger w/kg than before. so i knew at that point test and other aas were truly not needed.
several years later as a cat1 having guest rode for some pro teams (D3, US based) and listened to their convos and the general chatter in the peloton it was clear the only thing that reeeally worked was epo. you'd be beating guys easily, then 4 weeks later they mop the floor with you. it didn't make sense to me until some vets explained how the sport works.
the offseason before i stopped racing, after having done tons of research, i took the plunge because i wanted to see if epo was really what everyone was saying or if it was hype
after doing 50iu/kg eod for 2 weeks and then 50iu/kg e4d for 4 weeks, i was transformed into an absolute god. my w/kg numbers were D1 level for sure (though my experience and ability to read a race was still like cat2 level), 11.5 w/kg for 1' and 6.2 w/kg for 20'
at that point i was like, i can't hide with those numbers. a pro team will absolutely pick me up and then what? i'm totally fkd because i would then have to rely on doping to sustain that and absolutely did not want to get caught. so i hung it up having seen reality. the boost, especially for someone like me that is naturally a 400-800 type relative to running, is just so absurd that it's hard to believe without experiencing it for yourself.
and i got it from papp's site. i'm literally on some list somewhere that thank god never got released.
most will not understand my choices and likely vilify me or say i'm morally bankrupt. fair enough, i don't take it personally. i'm just that type of person who has an insatiable appetite for knowledge. oh you say the stove top is hot, mom? i want to touch it and find out for myself.
trying epo prob saved me 3-4 more years of thinking i could make a living turning the cranks.
Fascinated, thank you for sharing. Glad to hear you elected to stop before turning pro and violating rules.
“1.5-2.0mgs/kg/wk of test and the same of either deca or eq for roughly 1 year.” Assuming you weighed about 65 - 70 kgs (I assume you would be pretty light as a cyclist) that would be roughly 100 - 150 kgs per week of test, and about the same of Deca Durabolin or Equipoise. While not an exorbitant amount compared to some, it’s at least three times what you would get from a doctor for TRT and more than enough to have deleterious side effects. You also didn’t mention cycling off during that year. You mentioned the first few months off “sucked.” What other side effects did you suffer while using? Thank you.
After going off, I would definitely assume it would take months for your body to begin producing its own testosterone again. What was your training like during that period?
I know it's splitting hairs, but I think there's a difference between "doping" strictly for performance gains vs "doping" to heal an injury or chronic pain.
I know some people are very black n white about it, but I am not.
How many running injuries are out there where taking a banned substance will actually help speed up recovery?
That's the question. Have any of you on here actually ventured into what we call the grey area, where what you are taking, injecting, supplementing, while not illegal is not allowed under certain governing body rules.
Never as a runner. I ran 4:00.89 for the mile but couldn't get the nerve to cheat off the last.90 to get the 3:59.99. Active duty military I did but it was legal active duty. I weighed 135 pounds and was s elected to go to BUDs already needed an age waiver had been in the military for nearly 6 years nearly 30 years old so used doctor prescribed weight gainer also known as prescribed by a special warfare dive surgeon get my weight up to around 200 pounds no way was this track legal. All it did was cause cardiac issues joint problems and back issues. I'm 42 years old and am sadly writing this from a hospital bed after having major back surgery yesterday.
This sounds really silly, but I still feel guilty for cheating during a 7th grade pop up quiz after 3 hours of sleep, so no (this was ~35 years ago). I refused to take even creatine when I went through a bodybuilding phase. I can't even get myself to buy carbon plated super shoes after trying them out at a store because I wouldn't be able to accept them as legit pbs for myself.
Edit: Woah I was about to say I drink whiskey as my primary recovery drink (and there have been alcohol fueled runs...) which I thought was on the banned in comp list, but I just found out they removed it in 2018. I'm safe. Woohoo! Too little too late for HJ Ukhov, tho.
I know it's splitting hairs, but I think there's a difference between "doping" strictly for performance gains vs "doping" to heal an injury or chronic pain.
I know some people are very black n white about it, but I am not.
This might sound harsh, but I'm definitely in the "just don't get injured" camp.
As a hobby jogger in my 40s, sneaking a few seconds off my time using some dodgy supplements would be so meaningless. I might beat some hypothetical guy John who beat me by 10 seconds in my last half marathon. Probably not worth it.
I want to try bpc-157 for my shoulder issues of 10 years. Still on the fence because of some possible side effects I've read about.
I ordered a BPC-157 and TB500 solution to help with my plantar fasciitis, I feel no shame at all. My reasoning for this is I'm only 27 and I feel I'm too young to be dealing with these kinds of injuries and don't want them to sideline me for too long. PF typically takes 18 months to heal normally and I don't want to waste all that time not training when I'm supposed to be in my physical peak. I've been working on strengthening my feet and ankle muscles to ensure this doesn't happen again as well so hopefully this is just a one and done instance.
As a hobby jogger in my 40s, sneaking a few seconds off my time using some dodgy supplements would be so meaningless. I might beat some hypothetical guy John who beat me by 10 seconds in my last half marathon. Probably not worth it.
Definitely not worth it. I love running and racing, but at my level, the results are meaningless. Even if I had no moral qualms with drug cheating (and I do!) it's not worth risking my health to win a plastic age group medal at the Jingle Bell 5k. Would any reasonable person do a cost-benefit analysis on that and decide otherwise?
I know some do, and I actually feel kind of sorry for them that their lives are so devoid of meaning that they think it's worth it.
Yes, but I wasn’t running competitively. I did a steroid cycle 8 years back, just to see what all the fuss was about. Haven’t done it since.
Worth it?
No, not for me. The ‘body’ lasted maybe a couple months but everything that goes into it was not worth the effort. I’m glad I tried it though - to see that it was something I didn’t want.
A few years later, I just got stricter with diet + more consistent with weight training/running and I ended up even more fit than on steroids. It lasted much longer (currently recovering from unrelated injury) and felt mentally much better.
I know it's splitting hairs, but I think there's a difference between "doping" strictly for performance gains vs "doping" to heal an injury or chronic pain.
I know some people are very black n white about it, but I am not.
This might sound harsh, but I'm definitely in the "just don't get injured" camp.
I don't know about harsh, more like it sounds really stupid. I don't know anyone that is pro-injury, so way to really go out on a limb. Eventually ALL runners get an injury.
Yes, but I wasn’t running competitively. I did a steroid cycle 8 years back, just to see what all the fuss was about. Haven’t done it since.
THIS is what I wanted to hear about, people that have tried it and then given up or whatever.
What caused me to start this thread is that I was at another site and their forum has a section labeled "Pharma".. THAT is how out in the open drug and supplement use is in that sport.
Among others, cancer. At higher doses, dying in your sleep was really common--the heartbeat slows, then just stops. But this probably wouldn't happen with microdosing.
Of course it can. The whole point of taking epo is to increase the number of your red blood cells. These cells carry oxygen. More red blood cells equals more oxygen to your cells. More oxygen to your cells means you go anaerobic much further down the road than you would have otherwise. Whether you’re using whopping doses of epo or “micro dosing”, both serve to increase your red cell mass/hgb/hct. The higher the high/hct, the higher the viscosity of the blood. When the heart rate slows down during rest/sleep, the blood that is so viscous now clots easier. Because of this, the first blood vessel off of your heart clots off and creates what is called a “widowmaker” heart attack. As mentioned previously, increase in h/h leads to clots in general- meaning potential showers of clots to your extremities, brain, etc. Allergic reactions are not uncommon in icu patients after prolonged use, which can also happen to “regular” people using epo or its derivatives long term. Be very wary of an elite athlete that has “aplastic anemia”…that’s a bit of a tell.
As an aside, I don’t think there has ever been a documented case of epo causing cancer. The thought is that epo is basically a growth factor- in turn promoting the growth of a cancer that is already there.
I've gotten rehydration IVs after long runs, administered by a nurse family member with lots of experience. Technically against the rules if I were elite, but I'm a dad who has to get sh*t done. I feel zero guilt.