Strong possibility to let the pace go 9:20 ish and Fisher could close 3:55 ish which would have the race at 13:45-50. Now who got second third and fourth?
So you think Jakob is only winning the 5000m because the East Africans make it to a mile race?
Don´t you think a healthy Jakob with his 7:54 2 miles WB could run at least in the low 12:40s?
I think last year, if someone hammered the last 3k instead of waiting until the last lap to kick, Jakob wouldn't have won. Partially because of the 1500m in his legs, and partially because he was sick. A healthy Jakob in his 2 mile WR shape is in 5k WR shape, or near enough that it makes no difference. He ran 12:48 in 2021 didn't he?
Strong possibility to let the pace go 9:20 ish and Fisher could close 3:55 ish which would have the race at 13:45-50. Now who got second third and fourth?
Why does Jerry always get credit for runners improving after they leave his team? Teare was a 1500m national champion with 13:06 strength (in a conservative early season time trial) before joining Bowerman. He stagnated/regressed under Jerry (couldn’t even make the 15 final, got slower in the 5k) and is now improving again because he has a coach who actually knows how to train him.
oh my god true I feel like there was one athlete that didn't improve under Jerry, then left and ran well under another coach for a year and then regressed, and someone said the strength from Jerry was the reason and it stuck. I know people talked about it with Sinclair Johnson, although I don't remember the details surrounding her.
oh my god true I feel like there was one athlete that didn't improve under Jerry, then left and ran well under another coach for a year and then regressed, and someone said the strength from Jerry was the reason and it stuck. I know people talked about it with Sinclair Johnson, although I don't remember the details surrounding her.
The Sinclaire one is insane. She literally ran terribly in the 1500 the entire time at BTC and left the team late 2021 in the midst of an injury. Then PRed and had a career year (3:58, US title, 6th at Worlds) in 2022 after having to get back to health and start from scratch. Even this year and last year despite more injuries she’s running better than at any point with Jerry.
The Teare one has slightly more nuance because he did PB in the 1500. But he stagnated at 5,000 and got bounced at USAs in R1. When he got his shot in a fast DL 5,000 he bombed very unlike yesterday when he ran great.
The only argument would be they didn’t give Jerry enough time but since they had immediate success with their new coaches that’s a tough one.
So you think Jakob is only winning the 5000m because the East Africans make it to a mile race?
Don´t you think a healthy Jakob with his 7:54 2 miles WB could run at least in the low 12:40s?
I think last year, if someone hammered the last 3k instead of waiting until the last lap to kick, Jakob wouldn't have won. Partially because of the 1500m in his legs, and partially because he was sick. A healthy Jakob in his 2 mile WR shape is in 5k WR shape, or near enough that it makes no difference. He ran 12:48 in 2021 didn't he?
Why are you comparing current Fisher/Teare to the 2021 field? Even if you do, Teare is nearly 20s faster than he was in 2021, and was only 1s off the team in 2021 behind Chelimo, Kincaid, and Fisher. Chelimo went on to medal at the Olympics, but hasn't shown that form since then. What kind of track record are you using to take Kincaid over Teare in a tactical race? The 2021 trials? Teare was the 2022 US 1500m champ in a 3:43 race. I agree that I don't think Fisher lets it get that tactical, but even if he did, I still take Teare.
I've thought some about Nuguse doing the 5k. He seemed pretty against it after BU, but even if it's a 13:40s race, Teare would have to worry about Woody and Nuguse. He's outkicking Fisher in a slow race every time, and he's probably outkicking Woody too. You don't have to care about 1500 pbs, but 1500 pbs matter more than 5k pbs if the race is tactical and it turns into a mile race with a 2 mile warmup.
I don't know how you can say on one hand that you don't care about 1500 pbs, then say you're worried Nuguse runs the 5k even though he hasn't shown any particular prowess at the 5k. You're going off of his 1500 success and nothing else. Especially when comparing him to Jakob at Worlds, who has won two years in a row because he's the best miler in the field, and the field lets it turn into a mile race.
So you think Jakob is only winning the 5000m because the East Africans make it to a mile race?
Don´t you think a healthy Jakob with his 7:54 2 miles WB could run at least in the low 12:40s?
It is crazy. Ingebrigtsen is a 1500/5000m runner that holds the WRs at 2000m and 2-mile (conversion is faster than Komen’s legendary 7:20.7), yet he’s too slow for the 1500m, and not strong enough for the 5000m. For sure, he can run sub-12:40.
He's a 3:32 guy (at worst, expect that to get a lot faster this year), and he's never made a US 5k team, while he was the 2022 US 1500m champ. Is he gonna go for both teams again this year? Who's got a better shot at the 5k team than him? Fisher for sure, but Woody and Nico aren't 3:32 guys (and Nico is probably sticking to 10k anyway). Klecker is out. Nur stomped the field last year, but he hasn't looked quite on his game this year.
I posted this in another thread but will repost here.
I'm not sure why everyone is going ga-ga over Teare after this 12:54. It's certainly encouraging but the reality is 1.42 seconds behind FIsher. At the last Trials, if you were 0.13 behind Fisher, you wouldn't have made the team. In fact, in that race, Teare was closer to Fisher than he was last night (1.07 seconds back) and he didn't make the team.
I don't care about their 1500 pbs. I think based on track record you have to take Kincaid over Teare if it's totally tactical (don't think Fisher would be that stupid to let it go that tactical).
Then there is still Nur, Young, Blanks etc. But the nightmare scenario and the wildcare for all of these guys is Nuguse. If I'm all of these guys, I'd be very worried that Nuguse runs the 5000 for kicks and giggles after making the 1500 team. In a tactical 5000 at the US level, he might end up being like Jakob is at the world level.
Being 1 second back in a 12:53 race is way different than in a 13:27 race. As another poster mentioned, tactical races are often closer than fast ones. In 2022, Fisher made it a 13:03 race and you had to be within 4.79 seconds to make the team (Though you could argue the gap would be a couple seconds smaller if Chelimo was a factor).
I would think you would know this as a former college coach, yet you're trying to dump on excited fans and act like the smartest person in the room.
Anyways, this result is promising for Teare. Now we know that if Fisher makes this a fast race, Teare has the strength to hang.
So you think Jakob is only winning the 5000m because the East Africans make it to a mile race?
Don´t you think a healthy Jakob with his 7:54 2 miles WB could run at least in the low 12:40s?
It is crazy. Ingebrigtsen is a 1500/5000m runner that holds the WRs at 2000m and 2-mile (conversion is faster than Komen’s legendary 7:20.7), yet he’s too slow for the 1500m, and not strong enough for the 5000m. For sure, he can run sub-12:40.
We don’t know for sure if he is strong enough for the 5000m atm. He hasn’t run a paced 5000m since 2021.
Why does Jerry always get credit for runners improving after they leave his team? Teare was a 1500m national champion with 13:06 strength (in a conservative early season time trial) before joining Bowerman. He stagnated/regressed under Jerry (couldn’t even make the 15 final, got slower in the 5k) and is now improving again because he has a coach who actually knows how to train him.
oh my god true I feel like there was one athlete that didn't improve under Jerry, then left and ran well under another coach for a year and then regressed, and someone said the strength from Jerry was the reason and it stuck. I know people talked about it with Sinclair Johnson, although I don't remember the details surrounding her.
Well I think Kate Grace would largely fit that runner's description, though after 2021 she didn't regress so much as temporarily retire due to long-term effects from Covid-19. She left Bowerman in early 2021 and had a career year despite missing the Olympic team, running 1:57 several times and even winning a Diamond League.
you would have to be a serious douche to put down on this performance. not only is it a great time (and big PB!) but he also ran with huuuge balls and led a good amount of a race with many of the worlds best in it. most ballsy 5000m performance by an american in many many years.
This post was edited 2 minutes after it was posted.
So you think Jakob is only winning the 5000m because the East Africans make it to a mile race?
Don´t you think a healthy Jakob with his 7:54 2 miles WB could run at least in the low 12:40s?
I think last year, if someone hammered the last 3k instead of waiting until the last lap to kick, Jakob wouldn't have won. Partially because of the 1500m in his legs, and partially because he was sick. A healthy Jakob in his 2 mile WR shape is in 5k WR shape, or near enough that it makes no difference. He ran 12:48 in 2021 didn't he?
It's pretty obvious that Jakob is a true 2-mile/3k guy like Komen was. I don't think Jakob could touch either the 15 or 5k WR's but I do think he can take down that 3k record and be the all-time goat.
I think he'll always have trouble in the 15 against the best in the world unless it's sub-3:29 race, and I think he'll always have trouble in a 5 if the pace is sub 12:45. I don't see anyone beating him in a 3k no matter the pace, though.
However I think Cooper was already in sub 13 shape back in 2022, but because of a combination of circumstances (injury, not the right 5k race, focus on 1500...) he didn't achieve it.
Always said here that he was a 5000m runner, and not a 1500m guy. Very obvious.
Teare is better than all of our 5K guys except Fisher (Nico is still only 21 yrs old). In a Trials type race, Teare is the HUNTER in the 5000. In the 1500, he is the HUNTED.
Cooper Teare and Nico Young should still maintain their 1500 speed by competing in the event up through the USATF championship level, especially in non-Olympic years. American Distance Running needs to end the "event displacement" trend in the distances.
Just because you cant win a 1500 gold medal at the world level doesnt mean that honing one's speed at that distance should be dropped entirely.
Recall, Mo Farah could run 1:53 at the end of a 10000. That is what it takes to win. He also dipped down to run a 3:28 1500 in a Diamond League one year.
It should almost be baked right into their contract that they receive award bonuses for better 1500 times and they should utilize that with their training cycles. Sign up for a collegiate indoor at the old stomping grounds or go out to California in late April and win B-heats to check speed status. Nothing wrong with that.
So you think Jakob is only winning the 5000m because the East Africans make it to a mile race?
Don´t you think a healthy Jakob with his 7:54 2 miles WB could run at least in the low 12:40s?
It is crazy. Ingebrigtsen is a 1500/5000m runner that holds the WRs at 2000m and 2-mile (conversion is faster than Komen’s legendary 7:20.7), yet he’s too slow for the 1500m, and not strong enough for the 5000m. For sure, he can run sub-12:40.
He can run and excel at every distance. The guy is from another planet.
That said, he's not a 1500m runner. His sweet spot is around 3000m. Obviously his 1500, mile, 2k, 3k and 2mile are all unreal. Will probably go 12:35 (next year) as well.
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