You're looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses - something I am accused of. (Juan Carlos, by the way, was known for his tendency to exaggerate. 44x was Tommie Smith's range - a 19.8 runner over the 200).
Ah yes, Juan Carlos, the fastest monarch ever. Thanks for this nice memory, Lance.
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I was at the meet last night and the workout was impressive. They paced a little more than 1200 at 3:40 pace. Then paced the 800 for 550 or so splitting 50.5 at the 400. They then paced the 5k for about 2600 meters at 14:00 pace. Between each race they ran endlessly on the inside of the track staying warm and graciously ran with anyone who wanted to run with them. They clearly were just enjoying themselves in the 4x4, practicing handoffs and joking with runners. After the meet they stayed on the infield and talked to everyone and took pictures. Spoke to them briefly and overheard their exchanges with other runners. Extremely nice guys and the meet was a lot of fun.
The meet was clearly a warm out as they were checking watches and being given splits.
I got downvoted by stating a fact. The first leg of the 400m is short. The start line is not the same as the 400m start line. It’s further up to account for three curves of stagger, making the first leg short and not given an official split.
Why is it news if a mid distance runner can run a 48 split?
I expect better from a 3:32 1500 runner. That was the original deal with him, right? Dominant kick and wins the 5th place medal at the Olympics.
Nick Symmonds could only run a 48, and slowed to 3:35 over 1500, and is among the slowest 400 times of any 1:42/3 800 runner. How can a 3:32 1500 guy only run a 48? Unless he's just slacking. Cole should try harder.
Nick ran 47.45 per his IAAF account. That’s worth a 46 mid relay split. It’s likely he could run 46 high open when he ran his 1:42 pb.
You're looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses - something I am accused of. (Juan Carlos, by the way, was known for his tendency to exaggerate. 44x was Tommie Smith's range - a 19.8 runner over the 200).
Ah yes, Juan Carlos, the fastest monarch ever. Thanks for this nice memory, Lance.
I expect better from a 3:32 1500 runner. That was the original deal with him, right? Dominant kick and wins the 5th place medal at the Olympics.
Nick Symmonds could only run a 48, and slowed to 3:35 over 1500, and is among the slowest 400 times of any 1:42/3 800 runner. How can a 3:32 1500 guy only run a 48? Unless he's just slacking. Cole should try harder.
48.7 in a relay is 49-low standing start. That's pretty respectable for a 3:32 guy. Hocker is not an 800 guy so shouldn't be compared to one.
In rare agreement with Armstronglivs. Respectable time and I would also go on to say I would expect he will become a sub 3:30 guy before long.
You're looking at the past through rose-tinted glasses - something I am accused of. (Juan Carlos, by the way, was known for his tendency to exaggerate. 44x was Tommie Smith's range - a 19.8 runner over the 200).
Ah yes, Juan Carlos, the fastest monarch ever. Thanks for this nice memory, Lance.
I thought the reference was to US sprinter John Carlos. Monarchs don't tend to be expert on track.
"In light of the previous night’s downpours and the ominous clouds that hung in the sky over Lawrence on the morning of April 23, 1966, the organizers of the Kansas Relays expected no more than 5,000 spectators to show up for the day’s track event... They saw the long jumpers use a grain elevator’s conveyor belt for a runway... On April 23 of that year, with his 19th birthday less than a week away and storm clouds gathered overhead, Ryun took to the rain-soaked track at Memorial Stadium and shattered the 12-year old Kansas Relays mile record by more than seven seconds. The KU prodigy admitted that the wild cheering of the unexpectedly large crowd “spurred him on” to the fifth fastest mile in American history. His time of 3:55.8 represented the best time anyone in the world had yet recorded that year... Later that day he anchored the freshman mile relay team for KU and despite receiving the baton 20 yards behind the leaders reeled them in with a 46.9-second quarter-mile to give his team the victory."
46.9 split is 47.5 out of the blocks. That doesn't show 45x capability but strength endurance.
Eight hundred meter performance is an acquired skill. I don't know what you are arguing. Of course 800m performances are strongly correlated to 200m ability.
John Carlos, who was around J Ryun more than you were has stated J Ryun to have been a 44.xx 400m talent. I wouldn't go that far. I would put Ryun in the 46.50 to 46.99 range, assuming if he sprinted fresh based on his 1 mile training. If Ryun were adopted by then East Germans or then Soviets and told from age twelve to train as an 800m man, a bit faster than my above estimated range for Ryun.
I cannot find a f.a.t. 400m for Ralph Doubell either. Based on his 600 yard dash performances, I estimate R Doubell's 400m ability, about 45.50. R Doubell was a contemporary of Ryun. Over the years, there have been discussions: What if Jim Ryun raced 800m, 1968 Olympic?
Doubell started as a 440 yards runner. He did run a 74.4 for 660 yards..
He didn't stay a 440 runner because it wasn't his best event. 74.4 for 660y is a little under 50 speed for one lap. I can believe he could run close to 47 but not necessarily faster.
I got downvoted by stating a fact. The first leg of the 400m is short. The start line is not the same as the 400m start line. It’s further up to account for three curves of stagger, making the first leg short and not given an official split.
the thing is, nerd, most coaches and other knowledgeable track people understand how to get splits from the middle of the exchange zone, where there is a clearly marked line. and thank god, otherwise we wouldn't ever have splits for the first OR second runner.
Haha maybe this is where the "1:39" idea came from, as that would be the result of having 44s speed and 3:33 endurance.
Any guy that focuses on 400m instead of 1500 will be faster at 400m, and when they run seldomly, the times are under estimated. For a one off, a faster 1500m athlete will be pressed to run 49 or under 50 secs 400m in the midst of a training cycle, and 48 seconds is a great result when peaking. The PR of these guys say running just a season as a 400m runner, the opener will be 1 1/2 seconds off peak, and the above are the considerations when people speculate about the 400m time.
Guys like Cram say they are hard pressed to run a 48, this would be true, but that doesn't tell the real tale and hides the truth, where that 48 speed means 142 800m,
Coe, Ryun, Doubell, Ovett could have managed to be 400m runners, not world class but international class. which is kind of obvious, given their WR
performance in the next event up.
With the exception of Coe, who ran 45x in a relay, all those estimates were never demonstrated and are likely to be an exaggeration of up to a second for each of those runners.
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