Jakob's take on doping today versus 10 years ago

Yes, he probably meant Hallen. And it is of course Professor Hallen and not I that is the expert that are saying blood values cannot be trusted… (I link a Norwegian interview with him from around the time Henrik was suspected. Download google translate and read it in English if interested).

I think you misunderstood a little -nobody is saying that altitude training automatically gives values that are red flags, or that Wada never has tried to adjust for altitude when evaluating the tests. What Hallen stresses is that there obviously have been wrong measurements / equipment failure, lack of knowledge when it comes to impact of dehydration / how long since one came down from altitude, and so on, and how this affects the values. And individual variables. He is also saying that there’s a reason why nobody of the many suspected in Wada’s database got cases against themselves, based on values…

For my own part I will add that when Wada researchers made their estimates of doping prevalence based on blood values collected in WC 2011 and WC 2013 most athletes weren’t asked if they had had altitude camps (none asked in 2011). We don’t know the exact year the suspicions against Henrik started…

nrk.no

– Blodverdier er misvisende

Anders Rove Bentsen / Journalist

Etter å ha finkjemmet blodverdiene til Anders Aukland, mener idrettsprofessor Jostein Hallén at blodverdier kan være misvisende å bruke som bevis for doping.

Open link

You are speculating here, based on lack of knowledge (we all do of course).

Siblings aren’t very alike genetically. But they aren’t necessarily so different either. -The Dibaba sisters (5 I think) f.ex, or 4 Borlee brothers and two sisters, The Bekele brothers (two), and quite a few others… And it helps if there are many to choose from -Jakob has 6 siblings (not very genetically improbable with 3 out of 7 with running genes, maybe…). I personally know of a family with only two children -they don’t look alike at all (one brother clearly is built like his mother, the other brother like their father).:But they both are among the best in the Nation in the same event…

Jakob says it’s not about the genes, and I think he’s right. -Henrik, Filip, and Jakob don’t look alike at all… But of course genes are an underlying factor, and the three of them are f.ex all relative slow (in a 800m). But Jakob’s point seems to be: consistent training and the right framework is the most important.

Nordås didn’t come out of nowhere -nearly 2 and a half years before his breakthrough he was fifth in Euros indoors only a meter behind Katir, who ran 3.28 a few months later. But you have to read the many threads about him and why he came in a position to run 3.29…

Asthma medication used by asthmatics isn’t doping (dosed correctly…)

If anything, it seems like a giant projection from Jakob. The best guy claiming that doping is the worst its ever been is a really bad look.

I like Jakob but he is talking out of his arse. Anti-doping is way more sophisticated and thorough than it was in 2014. The Jama Aden group I think we all know was doped to the gills and they could not nail Makhloufi/Genzebe/Souleiman. By 2021, Aden had a runner steal the silver medal at the 10K (Gezahegne) but anti-doping while slow to move had her out of the sport in 1 year. Certainly there is a possibility someone like Katir was microdosing and manipulating the whereabouts system. It sounds like Spanish anti-doping was conveniently not testing him either. But he did get cornered and banned. I think most of the doping now is not nearly as aggressive as it was in 2014 due to ABP, more targeted testing and the like.

I don’t think anyone has really said Nordas came out of nowhere in the literal sense. I think the prevailing reason to be suspicious of him is he was a known commodity by the end of 2022. 13:15 guy, DL fill-in in Oslo, fringe guy for a medal in European competitions. Much like Shelby in 2017. Both had seemingly been at an OK level at the 5K but then took a huge step forward at the 1500. Like if Morgan Beadlescomb starts being a consistent 3:29-30 guy and challenging for DL wins, I think everyone here would find that strange/suspicious.

Call me naive.

Bekele has always been clean.

This was exactly what I was thinking. The interview sounded just like the kind of remarks Armstrong would make in his heyday. However, I will add, I hope I am wrong.

Jakob is not coached by his father.

We have discussed this before: In 2022 Narve ran a 3.36.2 win in May, in a distance he didn’t prioritised. And Narve is a guy (because of the lack of speedy intervals) who needs some races to come in shape (compare f.ex with this winters indoor season, first 1500 really bad, then better and better) -clearly he could have run a much faster 1500m in 2022. And also 5000m -he really got destroyed by hot temperatures in the 5000m champs…

I'd agree that micro-dosing, TUEs, and gray area stuff, have probably been the norm since the test for EPO, but the sudden jump in performances in recent years — in cycling too, so it's not just the shoes — suggests there's some new method that allows for in-competition blood doping that's undetectable.

Look at the dates there (2002 - 2006). Since 2009, that's all standardized, including measurement procedures and errors and dehydration. By now, lots of people have been suspended based on their ABP - you should go with newer sources than that interview with Hallen's unsubstantiated opinion on old cases.

Looking up Henrik's case: he had 2 stars out of 3, he had 3 suspicious tests (2x passport suspicious, 1x likely doping), with the last test from 2016.

Looking up the whole list: quite a small one especially when focusing on the likely dopers only: only 16 athletes with that status, including only 1 from NOR, 1 from UK, 2 from USA, 2 from ETH, 6 from KEN, and 0 from GER and NED and ESP for example.

If faulty measurements were common still in 2015/16, that list would be endless. I conclude the opposite: the thresholds to arise suspicion are way too large so that moderate blood doping is still easily possible. No reason to microdose.

I understand this is what Narve fans say. He looked maxed out at 7:43 for 3k last year too. Was that the heat too?

The epo aside....

rise of the machines terminator at DuckDuckGo

for some reason this site is blocking me from sending the link...

Aside from the potential epo usage they are human 2.0s thanks to the covid vax.

As it says in the Terminator Dark Fate... they are Rev 9 models....

It all sounds fantastic but this is the principal reason records are falling in endurance events...

We are witnessing human hosts now occupied and controlled by a higher power i.e. Revelation 9:11...demons are controlling these hosts. Its true. They look human but they are not.

Ask yourself in all honesty why the white man is now dominating the east Africans???

What has changed???

Look at the timeline....post 2020...the whites in DEPTH are competing along side the east Africans....

Look at the performance TIMES....the LEVEL has SKY ROCKETED....in events like 1500,3000, 5000 and 10000, marathon.

It ain't just the peds....

White guys have always been good at 800-1500???. I do agree with your sentiment that people are training smarter and more if that’s what you’re trying to state

Lolz, this!!! I'mvery familiar with kind of talk.. the great one who crushes all the dopers because he just works so much harder and has some superhuman ability to take more pain, a much higher training load, and recover faster. Nothing to see here!

Suddenly the arrogance would all make sense... I don't even bother to wonder about drugs at that level. I just assume they all do it and those who don't simply cannot medal or get close to breaking records. It's just way too easy and cheap to dope and the incentives are too great.