There are two sets of factors I'd consider: rules-based factors (has the athlete in question broken any stated rules?) and team dynamics
Rules-based factors - Many public high schools are limited in what they can do because being on the team is for course credit. Often, it will be the case that you have to check with principal before you can do something like that OR you can soft ban them by giving them a bad grade. - For college teams, I think it's a question tied to scholarships, performances, and more highly specified team rules/expectations.
Team Dynamics - Good teams thrive on culture. NAU is a good example right now. Generally, Mike Smith looks for pretty selfless guys, gets them to train hard, and do things for the good of the team. In this case, if guys are not working in line with the culture Mike Smith has created, I think it's probably a sequence of events where you outline expectations and if they do it more then you kick them off. - I've been kicked off of my college team for drinking/drinking with other kids on the team/otherwise being a bad influence. I felt bad about it and then worked hard to get back on the team and was eventually let back on.
Something people don't consider as much, especially with college teams, is that people on your team often live together and train together, so it's not necessarily like you kick the kid off your team and your problems are solved. The best solution is to get their interests aligned exactly to where you want them to be and that solves the overall culture piece a bit more.
Yea I think if we are talking HS here, I think all of us are aware that historically track and filed is WAY more tolerant of non commitment. In other words I think it has been accepted in most places that if someone wants to come to track or XC...have at it...its physical activity if nothing else (and they put it on there college app)? Try that on the football team! But as far as im concerned you should be able to choose the depth of your commitment. Just realize you wont be doing any meets anytime soon. My feeling for kicking off the team is aside from the obvious like fights or drugs...you can be a non engaged athlete if you like, but if you are not engaged AND you are interfering with others..then you get a few warnings and out you go. You can be a slacker and run track, but you cant infect others.
I disagree. You have kids that are going to go above and beyond no matter what, and you have kids who walk as soon as they're out of sight, but the vast majority of kids are somewhere in the middle. Holding kids to high expectations helps those kids in the middle commit.
I've never kicked anyone off my team, and I would never kick someone off the team at the first infraction, but my athletes know that they are required to communicate absences. The first time they don't communicate, it's a conversation with the athlete. The second time, it's an email to the parents. I've only had one time when it went further than that, and I had a conversation with the kid telling her that she needed to do better if she wanted to be on the team next year. She decided work was a higher priority, so she didn't come back.
My home life was pretty messed up and I was lucky to have some teachers and school administrators who looked out for me. I agree that you can't let kids disregard rules, but I encourage coaches to find out what's going on. Usually acting out is in response to something.
When they believe what they have learned on social media is better than your coaching experience. And they're spreading that conflict and doubt about you being a coach to other team members on the team. Usain Bolt once alluded to saying he couldn't coach today's young athletes because they believe they "know it all".
Yea I think if we are talking HS here, I think all of us are aware that historically track and filed is WAY more tolerant of non commitment. In other words I think it has been accepted in most places that if someone wants to come to track or XC...have at it...its physical activity if nothing else (and they put it on there college app)? Try that on the football team! But as far as im concerned you should be able to choose the depth of your commitment. Just realize you wont be doing any meets anytime soon. My feeling for kicking off the team is aside from the obvious like fights or drugs...you can be a non engaged athlete if you like, but if you are not engaged AND you are interfering with others..then you get a few warnings and out you go. You can be a slacker and run track, but you cant infect others.
I disagree. You have kids that are going to go above and beyond no matter what, and you have kids who walk as soon as they're out of sight, but the vast majority of kids are somewhere in the middle. Holding kids to high expectations helps those kids in the middle commit.
I've never kicked anyone off my team, and I would never kick someone off the team at the first infraction, but my athletes know that they are required to communicate absences. The first time they don't communicate, it's a conversation with the athlete. The second time, it's an email to the parents. I've only had one time when it went further than that, and I had a conversation with the kid telling her that she needed to do better if she wanted to be on the team next year. She decided work was a higher priority, so she didn't come back.
I agree. I just think the football team every man has to run through a wall for his brother in arms mentality doesn't apply to Track. Im not sure what's right, but traditionally there is a whole lot of kids clearly getting in shape for something else or just putting an activity on their CV. But I would agree they all need to communicate and be accountable.
I have about 5- 6 kids on my squad that literally sit and watch the other kids do intervals. I used to give them the business, now I realize that this is their problem not mine. You get out of it what you put into it. My hard working mature kids set the example for most of the kids. They are old enough and aware enough that those 5-6 kids are slacking. So personally I have not found one bad egg spoils the bunch when most of the bunch have a fire in the belly and want to do well and see results from training/delayed gratification. My life is much more stress free now and I can focus on the workout for those who are committed. I know this wont fly in many sports but for me, when I get the question at least 3x per day-- "coach do we have to......" , I cut them off at "have to" and say "you don't have to do anything." It's worked for me. Shuts em right up and 90% of the time they get busy, even some of the slackers. To be honest, I think its helpful for those kids. If they sit there doing nothing, it kind of dawns on them...why am I here? I don't know that the 50 y/o coach yelling at them to do the minimum has a goal? If I shout eye of the tiger at them until they start running 12 min mile instead of walking as soon as they are out of sight...is that helpful?
On one end you have a coach takes himself way too seriously and acts like missing his practice is the end of the world, and an insult to him AND the team! On the other end is the coach that treats the sport like it's Jogging Club. As with most things the middle path is where the truth lies.
99.9% of these kids will never compete after HS, will probably never run again. Having some super hard line about missed practices doesn't teach them anything except that when given some power, many people will let it go to their head an act like an @$$. Like others have said, you don't know what these kids are going through at home, and if you are really wanting to make a difference in young people's lives you cant do that if they are not on your team.
My home life was pretty messed up and I was lucky to have some teachers and school administrators who looked out for me. I agree that you can't let kids disregard rules, but I encourage coaches to find out what's going on. Usually acting out is in response to something.
Sad to say but there comes a time you have to put the team over a kid with a hard knock life. About 15 years ago I learned that two 7th grade girls had been sexually assaulted by an adult. I was asked to coach Jr High basketball and these two were on the team. They were off the wall and I excused it, knowing they had been molested. Pretty soon every kids is acting up, not listening talking back and the parents are calling the Principal complaining im costing their kid a scholarship. You can excuse bad behavior to a point but then the kid has to go.
Kind of a wierd topic to me. I read through out of curiosity but there's something that seems sort of backwards. Many posters here either are (I tend to believe you) or claim to be - or both - high school coaches. Some college maybe too. (I do NOT include 4:30 miler in this group.) The gist of the thread is that students at your school WANT to be on your team. It's a privelege. You hold the keys. Like it's some sort of seller's market. You, the coaches, are the seller of the product, which is the chance to 'be on the team'.
It seems to me that it actually a buyer's market. They hold all the cards. Their participation is more valuable to than you are to them. You are competing with:
Other school-sponsored sports.
Running without school sanction and therefore, without your input. (In fact, you wouldn't even be aware of any kid doing this.)
Other after-school/Saturday activities. (Student government, a group formed by an art teacher to paint a mural in the quad, a traveling band, etc.)
Going home, playing video games, doing nothing. This is a wide spectrum of activities and inactivity but I'm lumping them together since they all involve the kid walking away after school and don't involve you.
This last one has a huge pull and is seen as irresistably attractive to most kids. The othes, however also pull away potential business for you. If soccer or field hockey didn't exist, it's hard to imagine you wouldn't see a bump. Or if road racing didn't. That was a very attractive option to me, and my track coach was aware of neither my existence nor the fact that I ran competitively. (Just to make the point that you may not be aware of anyone at your school running on their own. I don't know how you WOULD know of them without other kids telling you.)
So, shouldn't you consider yourselves lucky that anyone at all shows up at your table on sign-up day? Maybe I've got the buyer vs. seller analogy backwards. Like, they all want to be there and you can charge a stiff price in rules and the threat of getting the boot is always hanging over their heads. There are always more customers since the whole school thinks your practice is the place to be.
But that's hard to imagine. The other competing options, not the least of which is sitting on the couch, seem pretty cool compared to your boot camp/drill sergeant routine. They're doing you a favor. Not vice versa.
But maybe I'm way off. Just giving you guys something to think about. Good thread!
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