(With your logic, I’m guessing you’re one of the people that think Ryun is the greatest ever, and would be running 3:24 in today’s shoes on the new tracks with wave lights.)
Ryun was great, but Centro has a gold medal!
You are not very bright. You are making assumptions without merit. I simply pointed out that Jim Ryun, without today’s advances, and one year removed from HS, ran over 2 seconds faster than today’s HS record for 800m. Centro is not germane to this at all, and Ryun was great but I do not believe he could have run the crazy times you are fantasizing about.
Hey now, my intelligence is not germane to this at all. I didn't insult you.
I'm very pleased to read that you don't think Ryun could be the WR holder today, in any event. I agree. There are people who frequent Letsrun who truly believe Jim Ryun, in today's shoes and on today's tracks, could be the 1500m WR holder. I think it's silly.
The Centro comment was a troll, poking the hornet's nest, to bring out some fire from other posters. And, it's also a fact, not speculation.
I'm guessing there are multiple examples of 19-year-olds bettering high school record times, distances, and heights. Athing Mu is one who comes to mind (i think) in the 400m.
You are not very bright. You are making assumptions without merit. I simply pointed out that Jim Ryun, without today’s advances, and one year removed from HS, ran over 2 seconds faster than today’s HS record for 800m. Centro is not germane to this at all, and Ryun was great but I do not believe he could have run the crazy times you are fantasizing about.
Hey now, my intelligence is not germane to this at all. I didn't insult you.
I'm very pleased to read that you don't think Ryun could be the WR holder today, in any event. I agree. There are people who frequent Letsrun who truly believe Jim Ryun, in today's shoes and on today's tracks, could be the 1500m WR holder. I think it's silly.
The Centro comment was a troll, poking the hornet's nest, to bring out some fire from other posters. And, it's also a fact, not speculation.
I'm guessing there are multiple examples of 19-year-olds bettering high school record times, distances, and heights. Athing Mu is one who comes to mind (i think) in the 400m.
Well you actually did insult me by saying that you were guessing that I was one of those who is delusional about Ryun. Well anyway the HS 800m mark is soft but as others have pointed out, there are not very many races where a 1:47-1:48 kid has a chance to get real completion in HS, so I think that may be a big factor in why it is not like 1:46:00 or a little faster.
It may be 27 years old but James Ryun, at age 19, in 1966 (57 years ago), ran 1:44.9 for 880 yards, converted to a 1:44.3 for 800m, (two hours after running a 1:51 heat), with a 53.3 opening lap followed by a 51.6 lap with a 25.5 last 220. So when I say the 1:46.45 is potentially soft, you can damn well believe it.
Hey now, my intelligence is not germane to this at all. I didn't insult you.
I'm very pleased to read that you don't think Ryun could be the WR holder today, in any event. I agree. There are people who frequent Letsrun who truly believe Jim Ryun, in today's shoes and on today's tracks, could be the 1500m WR holder. I think it's silly.
The Centro comment was a troll, poking the hornet's nest, to bring out some fire from other posters. And, it's also a fact, not speculation.
I'm guessing there are multiple examples of 19-year-olds bettering high school record times, distances, and heights. Athing Mu is one who comes to mind (i think) in the 400m.
Well you actually did insult me by saying that you were guessing that I was one of those who is delusional about Ryun. Well anyway the HS 800m mark is soft but as others have pointed out, there are not very many races where a 1:47-1:48 kid has a chance to get real completion in HS, so I think that may be a big factor in why it is not like 1:46:00 or a little faster.
How many 3:53 miles or 8:30 2 miles? Compare that to finding a 1:47 800(want something that goes out in mid 52s) which happen in a ton of college meets.
It isn’t like there are a tons of sub 1:48 kids that need a race. Summer and flat needed a race. Not of ton others.
The people that are saying the 800 record is soft are crazy. Cade Flatt and Will Sumner were outliers in a 44-year stretch, and they couldn't get it done. Let's also not forget that Cade was 19 years old when he got so close to the record in a college race, I believe. Granville ran his record in a HS only race basically by himself at 18. No one is doing that these days. If the 800 record was really soft, you would see boys breaking 1:47 or running 1:47 low almost every year. That isn't happening. As for Michael Carter's shot put record, no one is ever breaking it. It might last 60 years. It's far from soft. 81 feet is not human for a high school boy.
The people that are saying the 800 record is soft are crazy. Cade Flatt and Will Sumner were outliers in a 44-year stretch, and they couldn't get it done. Let's also not forget that Cade was 19 years old when he got so close to the record in a college race, I believe. Granville ran his record in a HS only race basically by himself at 18. No one is doing that these days. If the 800 record was really soft, you would see boys breaking 1:47 or running 1:47 low almost every year. That isn't happening. As for Michael Carter's shot put record, no one is ever breaking it. It might last 60 years. It's far from soft. 81 feet is not human for a high school boy.
Didn’t Cade Flatt claim he ran like 6 miles per week or something? The HS 800m record is soft. When other countries like the Netherlands can have kids the same age running 1:44.78 then you know that the 1:46.45 is soft.
The people that are saying the 800 record is soft are crazy. Cade Flatt and Will Sumner were outliers in a 44-year stretch, and they couldn't get it done. Let's also not forget that Cade was 19 years old when he got so close to the record in a college race, I believe. Granville ran his record in a HS only race basically by himself at 18. No one is doing that these days. If the 800 record was really soft, you would see boys breaking 1:47 or running 1:47 low almost every year. That isn't happening. As for Michael Carter's shot put record, no one is ever breaking it. It might last 60 years. It's far from soft. 81 feet is not human for a high school boy.
Didn’t Cade Flatt claim he ran like 6 miles per week or something? The HS 800m record is soft. When other countries like the Netherlands can have kids the same age running 1:44.78 then you know that the 1:46.45 is soft.
Yes, Niels Laros has run 1:44.78 and a 3:48.93. Does that mean Webb's record is soft too in addition to the 800? No, it just means Laros is clearly one of the top juniors in the world.
Didn’t Cade Flatt claim he ran like 6 miles per week or something? The HS 800m record is soft. When other countries like the Netherlands can have kids the same age running 1:44.78 then you know that the 1:46.45 is soft.
Yes, Niels Laros has run 1:44.78 and a 3:48.93. Does that mean Webb's record is soft too in addition to the 800? No, it just means Laros is clearly one of the top juniors in the world.
It is a pointless discussion. Of course 1:46.45 is soft but it doesn’t matter.
The people that are saying the 800 record is soft are crazy. Cade Flatt and Will Sumner were outliers in a 44-year stretch, and they couldn't get it done. Let's also not forget that Cade was 19 years old when he got so close to the record in a college race, I believe. Granville ran his record in a HS only race basically by himself at 18. No one is doing that these days. If the 800 record was really soft, you would see boys breaking 1:47 or running 1:47 low almost every year. That isn't happening. As for Michael Carter's shot put record, no one is ever breaking it. It might last 60 years. It's far from soft. 81 feet is not human for a high school boy.
I see a guy at the running trail here who ran 1.48.8 for 880 yards (maybe 1:48.1 converted) in high school for Houston Memorial in the 1960s. So about 60 years ago. Memorial had a 46 400 meter guy and they held the sprint medley and mile relay national records. He held to state record for about 35 years.
I'm guessing there are multiple examples of 19-year-olds bettering high school record times, distances, and heights. Athing Mu is one who comes to mind (i think) in the 400m.
I agree that mentioning 'slightly out of high school performances' is worthwhile. Ironically, that means I support kcoe (the poster this guy seems to be at odds with) mentioning Ryun at 19. If a HS record is soft only due to 'lack of opportunity' then we would see college Freshmen and 19 year olds breaking them all the time. This would tend to suggest that the 800 is weak, I suppose.
But it also suggests that Chapa's 10000 mark is very strong. Many believe that it's laughably weak and that any Newbury student, and possibly the Principal and janitor could have broken it if they simply bothered to time their warmup one day. If this is the case, we would see NP alumni breaking it by large margins as true Freshmen.
They certainly have the opportunity in the NCAA, although it's hard to play the 'lack of 10k races' card if you're in So Cal where the Sound Running time trials are. They could easily have gotten a lane at some point, especially if Nike had pulled strings. But they absolutely have no shortage of 25-lappers in college. And if you could break it at 18, it should be no problem at 19 after an entire calendar year training specifically for10k (training for 10k XC would start immediately after HS).
It might sound weird, but to me it seems like the key to fast 800m times is high endurance development rather than speed.
Why do I say this? Well, running in the dead era of the late 80s - early 90s, almost nobody was breaking 1:50 in HS then. Now that people are training endurance again, lots of people sub 1:49.
Also, one of the Youngs (can't remember which of the two), who I thought was a threat to break the 5k record, decided to take a shot at the 800m record. He ran in the 1:47s. That's pretty insane when you consider that Rupp's PR as a pro was 1:49, and I think of the Youngs as more 5000m types (maybe that's a bad take).
So it seems that the ticket to success for 800m is training like a 5000m runner. We aren't seeing records because the 5000m dropping down guys aren't fast enough, and the fast guys like Flatt aren't developing their endurance enough.
Someone with the Mark Everett 400/800 style talent will crush this record when they put in enough miles to run it strong.
This is probably also why you see such a jump ahead when people enter college, which shows that they could probably do it sooner if they upped the volume a couple years earlier. Sumner almost broke it while training like a 200/400 guy
That was Aaron Sahlman I think, he's definitely more of an 800/1500 guy. Also Colin Sahlman who was more of a 1500/2 mile runner did run 1:48 mid, but he is also one of the most talented high school distance runner in history. I will say Simeon Birnbaum randomly ran 1:47 with a negative split at U-20's, so running an 800 while training for longer distances is viable, but I see more potential in 200/400 runners like Sumner than 1500 runners like Leo Young for a shot at the 800 record
I actually think the boy's 5000 meter record is the softest of the major records at the moment. Though it's not run much during the regular season, more and most top stars are running in the post season lately. Connor Burns and Lex Young both beat Rupp's record last year. With sub 4 mile guys and sub 8:40 2 mile guys becoming less of a rarity, I can see it going down in the next year to 3 years. I doubt it will last 5 years at all.
It might sound weird, but to me it seems like the key to fast 800m times is high endurance development rather than speed.
Why do I say this? Well, running in the dead era of the late 80s - early 90s, almost nobody was breaking 1:50 in HS then. Now that people are training endurance again, lots of people sub 1:49.
Also, one of the Youngs (can't remember which of the two), who I thought was a threat to break the 5k record, decided to take a shot at the 800m record. He ran in the 1:47s. That's pretty insane when you consider that Rupp's PR as a pro was 1:49, and I think of the Youngs as more 5000m types (maybe that's a bad take).
So it seems that the ticket to success for 800m is training like a 5000m runner. We aren't seeing records because the 5000m dropping down guys aren't fast enough, and the fast guys like Flatt aren't developing their endurance enough.
Someone with the Mark Everett 400/800 style talent will crush this record when they put in enough miles to run it strong.
This is probably also why you see such a jump ahead when people enter college, which shows that they could probably do it sooner if they upped the volume a couple years earlier. Sumner almost broke it while training like a 200/400 guy
The current 800m record was set in the “dead era” of the 90s
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