I don't get any advantage. I don't know why but I've cycled through 3-4 different supershoes and they do not improve anything for me and they are uncomfortable/not fun to run in.
My guess is that I am a heelstriker so the plate doesn't do anything for me. And I like to sort of bounce off my heel, but in supershoes I just sink in rather than bounce. I race at around 6 minutes/mile pace.
Recreational runners (~19-20 min 5K runners) got significantly less running economy benefit, averaging about 1% in both of these 2022 studies - Nielsen et al, and Dominy and Joubert - even though they may get better race performance improvement vs. running economy improvement than elites, per Kipp, et als, 2019 reporting, but not enough to offset the significantly poorer running economy gains. Dominy and Joubert's study also showed 55% better running economy at 12km/hr than at 10km/hr running speeds.
Hoogkamer's 2018 landmark study showed average of over 4% but range of 1% to over 7% gains in running economy vs. Nike Zoom Streak 6 and Adidas Adios Boost 2, with all 18 test subjects being sub 31 min 10K runners. Heel strikers also got modestly better gains in running economy vs. midfoot/forefoot strikers.
One of the studies on recreational runners was with Nike Vaporfly 4% vs mass-matched Adidas Adizero Adios and the other with Nike Vaporfly Next%2 vs mass-matched Asics Hyperspeed.
I think we are called "non responders", sadly. I run slower in super shoes, and as another poster commented, it gets worse with distance. In a marathon I am struggling to pull my heels out of what feels like quicksand by mile 22. It's like I sink into the shoe and waste energy digging myself back out. All my PRs are in regular shoes / flats.
agreed on the vaporfly. I can run in them but barely. It feels like my toes are pointing up all the time, and I just squish down. Certainly they are no faster for me than any other shoe.
I get no pop, none of the bounce feeling other runners get. So I went back to old fashioned flats. I've had some success with the Brooks Hyperion Elite. And the new Tracksmith shoe feels good to me - Working well for me for regular runs.
Serious question: Are you a bit overweight? Or heavy for a runner? These shoes may not be ideal for you then.
I’m 5’10, 145 lbs. so, no, it’s not a weight thing. I believe it’s mostly how I hit the ground and partly that 6 min/mile is just slower than the shoes are meant for.
For 5k and 10k the Takumi Sen 8 is for me better than the Vaporfly Next %
I imagine that I may bend more the fiber glass rods than the stiffer carbon plate. And maybe the denser foam is also better for me.
I rave over the Takumi Sen. I am a weak responder to the Vaporfly, etc. fully plated shoes.
The best way I can describe is the Takumi Sen is it feels like a traditional racer but with a helluva lot extra pop. Their power rods really do work.
The Takumi Sen could easily take you out to the half 'thon distance.
I have the Skechers Excess 2 which has the plate only under the ball of the foot, and that works well, too.
Also love the Takumi- I use it as a non-plated flat for workouts/repeats/tempos (if not using Endorphin Speed).
One understated pro the VF/AF has over every super shoe is the recovery. If you race in a flat or regular trainer for anything, I'll say, 10k+ you're going to feel it the next morning.
Wear the VF/AF and you're hitting normal training paces the next morning. The protection these shoes offer is likely the reason we're seeing such fast times: the pros are able to finally maximize recovery from pounding
Was a decent D1 distance. Old injury (not running related) limited my running to 10-15 miles per week so I became a triathlete. Vaporflys have been the best racing shoe ever for me. Very cushioned but responsive. They helped me keep 10k base under 7:30 pace after 1500 swim and 40k bike at age 60. In addition to making you faster they take very little out of your legs and you could use them every day.
Serious question: Are you a bit overweight? Or heavy for a runner? These shoes may not be ideal for you then.
I’m 5’10, 145 lbs. so, no, it’s not a weight thing. I believe it’s mostly how I hit the ground and partly that 6 min/mile is just slower than the shoes are meant for.
Question. Do you actively drive your foot down or do you instead lift your knee when thinking form?
While I feel like I benefit enormously from the dragonfly, I have yet to run in a super shoe/flat that doesn’t make me slower. I think it’s technique related.
Does anyone else suspect the first few posts in this thread were all made by the Beooks marketing department?
I can promote other shoes too. I really like the Adizero Pro (not the Adios Pro) and Reebok Run Fast (sadly no longer on the market). I will check out the Adios 8.
Or is it just me? I seem to get no joy out of that shoe, every stride feels like a chore, except the first km. The cushion seems to sink instead of providing me max energy return, making it very uncomfortable for quicker push offs. What am i missing here? should i learn to run like an ostrich first before wearing it....Also i have a strong feeling this shoe will lead to side knee injuries if you wear everyday... is adios pro any different, should i try that? Thank you ladies and gentleman
I'm with you. I have a pair of the OG 4% shoes. I found them unstable. They were fine for a couple of MP test runs but the only time I tried them in a marathon they caused a breakdown in my form late in the race.
Shoes are highly individual. My best marathons have been in the Hoka Carbon X2. For whatever reason, it's the shoe for me.
I recently tried out the Saucony Endorphin Pro 3 in a marathon. They were ok but, I didn't feel any great boost.
All I can say is keep trying different shoes until you find the ones that float your boat. Training and race day specifics (weather/course/attitude) account for 99% of marathon performance, shoes don't matter that much. That's my 2 cents.