This is a good call. Teare has no weapons for the 1500. With a lot of luck, he could possibly make a global final, but more likely, he'd have a career like Johnny Gregorek.
Johnny Gregorek did make a global final (2017 Worlds)
No offense, Malmo, as I know your background in the event, but you are confusing causation and correlation. The best distance runners (longer than 1500m) are all tiny little men. And most of them are tiny little East African men. So, yes, they're the best in the steeplechase too. Relatively-speaking, and I saw your later comment about higher weight (which is ludicrous in my opinion), it's doesn't follow at all that a taller runner would be more disadvantaged in the steeple than the flat events. In fact, it's the opposite: from successful steeplechase runners that have already been mentioned on this thread to high jumpers (how many world champ high jumpers are under 6'0"?) there's clearly a benefit to being taller all else being equal.
You believe you deserve an up arrow because you used the lawyer phrase: Correlation doesn't mean causation.
Go ahead and list the Olympic SC medalists of mostly European heritage before 2008 Olympics over 6'1".
Let'srun lawyer, I stated 3000mSC is correlated with 10000m. Dig through the data and prove me wrong.
You haven’t provided any data to back up your assertion that the steeplechase is correlated with 10000m.
Asking for a list of “Olympic SC medalists of mostly European heritage before 2008 Olympics over 6’1”” is irrelevant to your claim that the SC is most closely correlated with 10,000m ability. The list of 5k medalists with the same qualifiers would be very short too. How about the fact that the last 4 Olympics have all featured SC medalists of over 6’, up to 6’3”+, and the last two have had multiple 6’ + medalists? How about the fact that the WR holder is a 6’+ 1500/5k guy? Or the man who held the WR for the prior 19 years—1500/5k guy. Or the American record holder and Olympic medalist—1500/5k guy. Or the reigning Olympic and World champion—6’3”+ 1500/5k guy. Or the man who medaled at 3 consecutive Olympics from ‘08 to ‘16–6’3” 1500/5k guy. Or the first man to break 8 minutes, 3x World champion Moses Kiptanui—never raced a 10k but ran 3:34.0 and set WRs at 3k and 5k. Or if you want to go back a ways, Ben Jipcho and Anders Garderud set 7 WRs between them, lowering the mark from 8:22.0 to 8:08.0, and were both, you guessed it, 1500/5k guys.
In spite of whatever “logic” your coaches espoused back in the 70s, or whatever, the factual history shows that 1500/5k guys make the best 3000m steeplechasers. In fact it’s almost as if 3000m is the distance most closely correlated to the 3k steeple—huh, go figure.
It seems like there are two competing things you want in a good natural steeplechaser. First you want to be light so jumping doesn’t take as much, and second you want to high crotch height so you don’t have to jump as hard. I would think the most natural steeplechasers would be very slight, tall runners.
There is no advantage in being tall. No one clears the barriers from the top of their head. Barriers are cleared from the bottom of their butt. A taller runner is going to be a heavier runner. More weight means more energy to lift the body 35 times over the course of the race. Also, a tall runner's natural take off point is further in front the barrier, which means a longer trajectory from take-off to landing, frequently causing awkward rotation over the barrier, while the short guys just pop up and drop down. Shorter runners are able to perform spectacular victory dances when they win (most times).
Have you watched the high jump? Tall guys clear barriers easier than short guys. However, short guys have some distance running advantage. SC is still a more about running than jumping. As for Teare, he might be great, but you don’t know until you try. Beamish was in a similar situation and he seems to have embraced it so far.
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Is the SC for guys who are particularly suited for 3000m, or is it for those with a special skill set of flexibility and even bravery to maintain speed over barriers or the skill of dealing with micro pace changes/rhythm disruptions and still run fast, or is it just for guys who can’t quite make it happen in the flat races??
This post was edited 1 minute after it was posted.
A taller guy on has a higher crotch. Not as much higher as at the top of their head, but say 0.4 times the height difference. Its a lot like the high jump. A taller guy has to raise his center of mass less. Not as much less as the height difference, but say 0.55 times the height difference.
Maybe Simeon Birnbaum (incoming duck) should do steeple; he kind of reminds me of Evan Jager in appearance - not in the face, but in the body type - tall & lanky. The internet lists him as 6'1.
The best steeplechasers are generally tiny little men. 6'2" isn't tiny.
It's easier to get over a hurdle when you're tall
You've never watched Dan Lincoln then. Lost ground over the barriers against Kenyans. Lost ground over the barriers against Americans. Lincoln was good at the steeplechase because the 35 walls didn't phase him. The Americans who cleared the barriers better than him just couldn't handle it.. The steeplechase is an event of its own. Runners who are good with the unpredictable nature of the event excel at it. Some runners have it, the great majority dont.
My best advice is to try the event first before opining on your potential. Or at least be a student of the event for 50 years.
This post was edited 15 minutes after it was posted.
The steeplechase is an event of its own. Runners who are good with the unpredictable nature of the event excel at it. Some runners have it, the great majority dont.
I believe that being tall doesn't mean someone will be a good steepler, but if they are someone who is "good with the unpredictable nature of the event", wouldn't being tall be an added advantage?
Like I asked in a previous post, don't you think you would have run faster if you were clearing women's barriers?
Looking at the top ten in the history of the event, there doesn't appear to be much correlation between height and performance. The average male height in Kenya is 5'7, and there's only one athlete on the list who's significantly shorter than that, with the non-Kenyans trending a bit taller. The next two fastest non-Kenyans are Mekhissi-Benabbad and Jager, who are 6'3 and 6'2 respectively.
Conclusion: height is far from the most important factor for a steepler, but taller is probably better all else being equal, which makes sense if you think about it intuitively.
You've never watched Dan Lincoln then. Lost ground over the barriers against Kenyans. Lost ground over the barriers against Americans. Lincoln was good at the steeplechase because the 35 walls didn't phase him. The Americans who cleared the barriers better than him just couldn't handle it.. The steeplechase is an event of its own. Runners who are good with the unpredictable nature of the event excel at it. Some runners have it, the great majority dont.
My best advice is to try the event first before opining on your potential. Or at least be a student of the event for 50 years.
Yeah. The opinion that Teare should give the steeple a shot because he may be an athlete who's best distance is shorter than 5000m and longer than 1500m makes sense.
His tallness or shortness doesn't make sense at all.
I've said for a while here that Teare is a 3k/5k type (there are plenty of these guys). I would suggest that he focus on 3000s in Europe, then give the 5k another shot in September. He's got a better skill set than Ritz, so I believe 12:56pt is reachable.
I would only go Steeple if all else failed.
As I have reminded you before:
The best guys are running 10-15 seconds faster in the 3000m than Teare so he can´t be sure he will get into DL races.
Looking at the top ten in the history of the event, there doesn't appear to be much correlation between height and performance. The average male height in Kenya is 5'7, and there's only one athlete on the list who's significantly shorter than that, with the non-Kenyans trending a bit taller. The next two fastest non-Kenyans are Mekhissi-Benabbad and Jager, who are 6'3 and 6'2 respectively.
Conclusion: height is far from the most important factor for a steepler, but taller is probably better all else being equal, which makes sense if you think about it intuitively.
I know this is trivial but no way was Richard Mateelong only 5’2”. If he was 5’2” then Ezekiel Kemboi would’ve been like 4’11”, but even just looking at Mateelong proportionately you get the sense that 5’2” is impossible.
Find the perfect ezekiel kemboi richard kipkemboi mateelong stock photo, image, vector, illustration or 360 image. Available for both RF and RM licensing.
I've said for a while here that Teare is a 3k/5k type (there are plenty of these guys). I would suggest that he focus on 3000s in Europe, then give the 5k another shot in September. He's got a better skill set than Ritz, so I believe 12:56pt is reachable.
I would only go Steeple if all else failed.
As I have reminded you before:
The best guys are running 10-15 seconds faster in the 3000m than Teare so he can´t be sure he will get into DL races.
There are other races in Europe besides the Diamond League you know.
Solid rationale but that boy is too goofy. It would take years, well into his late 20s to come close to figure it out. He lacks coordination and athleticism.
It seems like there are two competing things you want in a good natural steeplechaser. First you want to be light so jumping doesn’t take as much, and second you want to high crotch height so you don’t have to jump as hard. I would think the most natural steeplechasers would be very slight, tall runners.
There is no advantage in being tall. No one clears the barriers from the top of their head. Barriers are cleared from the bottom of their butt. A taller runner is going to be a heavier runner. More weight means more energy to lift the body 35 times over the course of the race. Also, a tall runner's natural take off point is further in front the barrier, which means a longer trajectory from take-off to landing, frequently causing awkward rotation over the barrier, while the short guys just pop up and drop down. Shorter runners are able to perform spectacular victory dances when they win (most times).
Take this to the logical extreme. Would a 1ft tall person or a 40ft tall person have an easier go at the event? You're way off base here.
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