John, the actual (only) explanation given was that he has an injured ankle and is toughing it out, presumably to make a living.
What are the other logical explanations you want me to be open to because there hasn't been another one given and you certainly haven't provided one.
What I did is take this explanation, watched his races this year where he visibly does not look to be in duress at all and said in my opinion that doesn't seem plausible. I might be wrong but it's my opinion.
I didn't start/come up with the 30mpw, 7min/mile thing - get your facts right.
As for why it's not unreasonable to entertain the possibility of something else?
1) He's the reigning Olympic and World Champion in the span of the last 23 months who is on a unprecedented run of poor form. It's not just the finishing times it's visually what we are seeing because he looks like a totally different runner.
2) His training partner refused to be tested and was banned 2 years. Why did he refuse testing - well most athletes who aren't doping don't refuse tests and get banned 2 years. The association there is troubling.
3) We can't move away from what we know about the state of doping in Kenyan athletics. Is it equally as bad in other countries? Yes. But Korir is from Kenya so the connection is relevant.
So let's get back to the other logical explanations other than an ankle injury - what are they?
You haven’t addressed my counterpoints at all. There’s no question Saruni was caught with his pants down. But why hasn’t Korir (as the more tested athlete) had this issue if it was so simple. Is there some testing breakthrough in August of ‘22 that the two were now so vulnerable to? Are you so sure that Saruni was even still a training partner by August ‘22? To your Kenya point, doesn’t it seem pretty plausible that Saruni after an all time stinker of a season in ‘22 tried to get some pharmaceutical help in Kenya and got caught red-handed?
I understand you think he looks OK physically but have you not considered an athlete racing and working out at 80% but unable to perform at a world class level (100%) in an explosive event? The US is riddled with 400 guys who a season or two ago ran consistently 44-45low but now would run a full season of 46s if they didn’t just DNF instead. They would look fine to my untrained eyes but would be unable to go full speed. Korir is not some flash in the pan as a 44.53/1:43.1 guy in 2017. He should speak more on it but injuries seem a lot more likely than him deciding he can’t beat the tests any more and going cold turkey.
Well for one, this post above you are replying to wasn't in response to you so I don't know counterpoints I'm supposed to be addressing. Unless you are registered as two personas on this board backing yourself up across posts?
I'll address one thing you said here which is so obvious and comical I can't believe a guy whose handle is "thoughtsleader" didn't think about it before stating it.
"Is there some testing breakthrough in August of ‘22 that the two were now so vulnerable to?"
Uh I dunno, how about that the AIU really started recognizing the utter sh-t show in Kenya and started contemplating banning Kenya from competing for the quote "crisis" that was happening within the sport in the country?
Kenya is facing the prospect of being banned from international athletics because of doping problems that authorities there say have reached “crisis” levels.
So maybe not specifically August 2022 but does the latter half of the year (months July to December work for you man?).
I'd call that holistically a breakthrough that could have put the sh-ts up a lot of Kenyan athletes, but that's just me. If I was a competing athlete in a nation that was undergoing this kind of spotlight I would be changing some of my habits too.
But please go back and log in to your other handle and come back as JWH with some support for your argument - I can handle guys like you in my sleep on topics (track and field, all of it) like this.
You haven’t addressed my counterpoints at all. There’s no question Saruni was caught with his pants down. But why hasn’t Korir (as the more tested athlete) had this issue if it was so simple. Is there some testing breakthrough in August of ‘22 that the two were now so vulnerable to? Are you so sure that Saruni was even still a training partner by August ‘22? To your Kenya point, doesn’t it seem pretty plausible that Saruni after an all time stinker of a season in ‘22 tried to get some pharmaceutical help in Kenya and got caught red-handed?
I understand you think he looks OK physically but have you not considered an athlete racing and working out at 80% but unable to perform at a world class level (100%) in an explosive event? The US is riddled with 400 guys who a season or two ago ran consistently 44-45low but now would run a full season of 46s if they didn’t just DNF instead. They would look fine to my untrained eyes but would be unable to go full speed. Korir is not some flash in the pan as a 44.53/1:43.1 guy in 2017. He should speak more on it but injuries seem a lot more likely than him deciding he can’t beat the tests any more and going cold turkey.
Well for one, this post above you are replying to wasn't in response to you so I don't know counterpoints I'm supposed to be addressing. Unless you are registered as two personas on this board backing yourself up across posts?
I'll address one thing you said here which is so obvious and comical I can't believe a guy whose handle is "thoughtsleader" didn't think about it before stating it.
"Is there some testing breakthrough in August of ‘22 that the two were now so vulnerable to?"
Uh I dunno, how about that the AIU really started recognizing the utter sh-t show in Kenya and started contemplating banning Kenya from competing for the quote "crisis" that was happening within the sport in the country?
So maybe not specifically August 2022 but does the latter half of the year (months July to December work for you man?).
I'd call that holistically a breakthrough that could have put the sh-ts up a lot of Kenyan athletes, but that's just me. If I was a competing athlete in a nation that was undergoing this kind of spotlight I would be changing some of my habits too.
But please go back and log in to your other handle and come back as JWH with some support for your argument - I can handle guys like you in my sleep on topics (track and field, all of it) like this.
Settle down little man. Your ego is bigger than your stick.
Salvitore Stitchmo11/13/2022 9:16pm EST2 years ago
Yeah so the irrelevant Colts beat the irrelevant Raiders. And past this season nobody will remember this game....BUT, what a moment this was in terms of exposing the idiotic narrative that to be a coach in the NFL it's all ab...
Well for one, this post above you are replying to wasn't in response to you so I don't know counterpoints I'm supposed to be addressing. Unless you are registered as two personas on this board backing yourself up across posts?
I'll address one thing you said here which is so obvious and comical I can't believe a guy whose handle is "thoughtsleader" didn't think about it before stating it.
"Is there some testing breakthrough in August of ‘22 that the two were now so vulnerable to?"
Uh I dunno, how about that the AIU really started recognizing the utter sh-t show in Kenya and started contemplating banning Kenya from competing for the quote "crisis" that was happening within the sport in the country?
So maybe not specifically August 2022 but does the latter half of the year (months July to December work for you man?).
I'd call that holistically a breakthrough that could have put the sh-ts up a lot of Kenyan athletes, but that's just me. If I was a competing athlete in a nation that was undergoing this kind of spotlight I would be changing some of my habits too.
But please go back and log in to your other handle and come back as JWH with some support for your argument - I can handle guys like you in my sleep on topics (track and field, all of it) like this.
Well first of all, the personal attacks and “I’m the debate king” boasts come off as a little unhinged. Just because I don’t agree with your theory. And no I have one account I use, JWH is a different poster than me and we agree/disagree on things and don’t resort to pettiness.
I just don’t buy your theory that Korir who again ran his best 800 of the season in September of 2022 just all of a sudden decided “no more doping, testing has gotten too good” 6 years into a doped career in your understanding. The ADAK/AIU push has been in the news and over the headlines since Pre-pandemic, and he’s been tested at a high level for years as part of Kenya being in Category A. Id think press about a Kenya ban would affect 10K+ guys too? Seems like they’re running the same or faster.
Lack of motivation. I mean money is no longer a motivating factor for him he has plenty of it.He also completed his studies and graduated a few years ago.He has already won gold at Olympics. It seems to me he is struggling to find a new reason for motivation. He isn't built for 1500m ,he is just a 400/800m guy.He could focus on 400M but he hangs out with an 800m team around him. I think Maybe next year he can focus on retaining his Olympic title.
Well for one, this post above you are replying to wasn't in response to you so I don't know counterpoints I'm supposed to be addressing. Unless you are registered as two personas on this board backing yourself up across posts?
I'll address one thing you said here which is so obvious and comical I can't believe a guy whose handle is "thoughtsleader" didn't think about it before stating it.
"Is there some testing breakthrough in August of ‘22 that the two were now so vulnerable to?"
Uh I dunno, how about that the AIU really started recognizing the utter sh-t show in Kenya and started contemplating banning Kenya from competing for the quote "crisis" that was happening within the sport in the country?
So maybe not specifically August 2022 but does the latter half of the year (months July to December work for you man?).
I'd call that holistically a breakthrough that could have put the sh-ts up a lot of Kenyan athletes, but that's just me. If I was a competing athlete in a nation that was undergoing this kind of spotlight I would be changing some of my habits too.
But please go back and log in to your other handle and come back as JWH with some support for your argument - I can handle guys like you in my sleep on topics (track and field, all of it) like this.
Well first of all, the personal attacks and “I’m the debate king” boasts come off as a little unhinged. Just because I don’t agree with your theory. And no I have one account I use, JWH is a different poster than me and we agree/disagree on things and don’t resort to pettiness.
I just don’t buy your theory that Korir who again ran his best 800 of the season in September of 2022 just all of a sudden decided “no more doping, testing has gotten too good” 6 years into a doped career in your understanding. The ADAK/AIU push has been in the news and over the headlines since Pre-pandemic, and he’s been tested at a high level for years as part of Kenya being in Category A. Id think press about a Kenya ban would affect 10K+ guys too? Seems like they’re running the same or faster.
The AIU just today said that they are going to do at least 5000 tests in Kenya this year. Korir knew what was up, especially after his training partner was suspended and they would be taking an even closer look at him. It's probably the same as Morceli - he's got his rewards from doping and now the risks are too great. He doesn't seem to mind humbling himself by picking up another year or two of appearence fees cashing in on his Olympic gold but as a shadow of his doped self.
Kenyans aren't running much faster than they were pre-super shoes are they? Do you understand that new 10K runners are willing to take greater risks than a guy at the tail end of h is career who has won everything and can cash cheques for 2 or 3 more years?
Well first of all, the personal attacks and “I’m the debate king” boasts come off as a little unhinged. Just because I don’t agree with your theory. And no I have one account I use, JWH is a different poster than me and we agree/disagree on things and don’t resort to pettiness.
I just don’t buy your theory that Korir who again ran his best 800 of the season in September of 2022 just all of a sudden decided “no more doping, testing has gotten too good” 6 years into a doped career in your understanding. The ADAK/AIU push has been in the news and over the headlines since Pre-pandemic, and he’s been tested at a high level for years as part of Kenya being in Category A. Id think press about a Kenya ban would affect 10K+ guys too? Seems like they’re running the same or faster.
The AIU just today said that they are going to do at least 5000 tests in Kenya this year. Korir knew what was up, especially after his training partner was suspended and they would be taking an even closer look at him. It's probably the same as Morceli - he's got his rewards from doping and now the risks are too great. He doesn't seem to mind humbling himself by picking up another year or two of appearence fees cashing in on his Olympic gold but as a shadow of his doped self.
Kenyans aren't running much faster than they were pre-super shoes are they? Do you understand that new 10K runners are willing to take greater risks than a guy at the tail end of h is career who has won everything and can cash cheques for 2 or 3 more years?
EK will win in Budapest, I said it once....He runs like this the first half of the season slow, 400, 500, 600...
The AIU just today said that they are going to do at least 5000 tests in Kenya this year. Korir knew what was up, especially after his training partner was suspended and they would be taking an even closer look at him. It's probably the same as Morceli - he's got his rewards from doping and now the risks are too great. He doesn't seem to mind humbling himself by picking up another year or two of appearence fees cashing in on his Olympic gold but as a shadow of his doped self.
Kenyans aren't running much faster than they were pre-super shoes are they? Do you understand that new 10K runners are willing to take greater risks than a guy at the tail end of h is career who has won everything and can cash cheques for 2 or 3 more years?
Again your opinion. The ADAK sting as it were that caught Saruni was last year in August. Korir ran well into September. This year he’s stunk it up and had to withdraw from his first race. That says injury to me as opposed to him now fearing testing which he’s contended with his entire career. To your Kenyan point, we’ve both looked at the data and your argument falls short just looking at sub-2:06 marathons, sub-60 halves, sub-27:10s, sub-13:05s etc. Not sure who the “new 10K guys” are you refer to.
The AIU just today said that they are going to do at least 5000 tests in Kenya this year. Korir knew what was up, especially after his training partner was suspended and they would be taking an even closer look at him. It's probably the same as Morceli - he's got his rewards from doping and now the risks are too great. He doesn't seem to mind humbling himself by picking up another year or two of appearence fees cashing in on his Olympic gold but as a shadow of his doped self.
Kenyans aren't running much faster than they were pre-super shoes are they? Do you understand that new 10K runners are willing to take greater risks than a guy at the tail end of h is career who has won everything and can cash cheques for 2 or 3 more years?
Again your opinion. The ADAK sting as it were that caught Saruni was last year in August. Korir ran well into September. This year he’s stunk it up and had to withdraw from his first race. That says injury to me as opposed to him now fearing testing which he’s contended with his entire career. To your Kenyan point, we’ve both looked at the data and your argument falls short just looking at sub-2:06 marathons, sub-60 halves, sub-27:10s, sub-13:05s etc. Not sure who the “new 10K guys” are you refer to.
Just quickly looking at the 10000m and 5 Kenyans broke 27:00 in the 3 years 2017-2019, whereas in the last 3 1/2 years with super shoes only 3 have. Your argument doesn't make sense.
So who are these 'old' Kenyans who have improved with the introduction of super shoes?
Just quickly looking at the 10000m and 5 Kenyans broke 27:00 in the 3 years 2017-2019, whereas in the last 3 1/2 years with super shoes only 3 have. Your argument doesn't make sense.
So who are these 'old' Kenyans who have improved with the introduction of super shoes?
Excluding road times I see? Very fair move because fast track 10Ks for small cheques are something Kenyans are really interested in. I see 5 sub-27 10KM this year and 7 last year.
Well for one, this post above you are replying to wasn't in response to you so I don't know counterpoints I'm supposed to be addressing. Unless you are registered as two personas on this board backing yourself up across posts?
I'll address one thing you said here which is so obvious and comical I can't believe a guy whose handle is "thoughtsleader" didn't think about it before stating it.
"Is there some testing breakthrough in August of ‘22 that the two were now so vulnerable to?"
Uh I dunno, how about that the AIU really started recognizing the utter sh-t show in Kenya and started contemplating banning Kenya from competing for the quote "crisis" that was happening within the sport in the country?
So maybe not specifically August 2022 but does the latter half of the year (months July to December work for you man?).
I'd call that holistically a breakthrough that could have put the sh-ts up a lot of Kenyan athletes, but that's just me. If I was a competing athlete in a nation that was undergoing this kind of spotlight I would be changing some of my habits too.
But please go back and log in to your other handle and come back as JWH with some support for your argument - I can handle guys like you in my sleep on topics (track and field, all of it) like this.
Well first of all, the personal attacks and “I’m the debate king” boasts come off as a little unhinged. Just because I don’t agree with your theory. And no I have one account I use, JWH is a different poster than me and we agree/disagree on things and don’t resort to pettiness.
I just don’t buy your theory that Korir who again ran his best 800 of the season in September of 2022 just all of a sudden decided “no more doping, testing has gotten too good” 6 years into a doped career in your understanding. The ADAK/AIU push has been in the news and over the headlines since Pre-pandemic, and he’s been tested at a high level for years as part of Kenya being in Category A. Id think press about a Kenya ban would affect 10K+ guys too? Seems like they’re running the same or faster.
We typically disagree on doping but your posts are always reasoned, and the personal attacks unwarranted.
Thanks and same to you. There can be frustration about someone saying you don’t agree with or misrepresenting things etc. but ultimately we’re all just passionate about track and enjoy talking about it. No need for personal attacks, name-calling.
Well first of all, the personal attacks and “I’m the debate king” boasts come off as a little unhinged. Just because I don’t agree with your theory. And no I have one account I use, JWH is a different poster than me and we agree/disagree on things and don’t resort to pettiness.
I just don’t buy your theory that Korir who again ran his best 800 of the season in September of 2022 just all of a sudden decided “no more doping, testing has gotten too good” 6 years into a doped career in your understanding. The ADAK/AIU push has been in the news and over the headlines since Pre-pandemic, and he’s been tested at a high level for years as part of Kenya being in Category A. Id think press about a Kenya ban would affect 10K+ guys too? Seems like they’re running the same or faster.
We typically disagree on doping but your posts are always reasoned, and the personal attacks unwarranted.
That is probably your best quality as a poster Armstronglivs…you NEVER insult anybody even when provoked.
Just quickly looking at the 10000m and 5 Kenyans broke 27:00 in the 3 years 2017-2019, whereas in the last 3 1/2 years with super shoes only 3 have. Your argument doesn't make sense.
So who are these 'old' Kenyans who have improved with the introduction of super shoes?
Excluding road times I see? Very fair move because fast track 10Ks for small cheques are something Kenyans are really interested in. I see 5 sub-27 10KM this year and 7 last year.
I thought we were discussing a decline in Kenyan performances due to better testing? The AIU have said themselves that the improved testing in recent years has been confined to the track, and that will change this year.
